Some posters have told me there was a good continuity going on in that period of time, but I have not been able to find any 70s stuff even at the largest comics store in our area. 60s yes, 70s no. Would anyone care to fill me in on the events, the chronology, the major Superman adventures in the 70s? (I posted something like this for the 1986 through 2000 era a while back. If anyone read it, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for.)

I know there was a while that Clark and Lana worked at a TV station, but that's about it.

Martin Pasko was my personal favourite scribe, coming in at the very end of the seventies. But his work hasn't been reprinted.

Denny O'Neil did an epic storyline for over a year on Superman, which we refer to as the Sandman Saga--that was at the beginning of the seventies, and most of those stories were inked by Anderson (with Giordano doing a star turn on one episode) and all pencilled by Gentleman Curt Swan.

I'll happily recount my personal views on the seventies Superman when I have more time. Right now, just let me say there are two eras that are my favourites for Superman...

It was probably one of the best Superman stories EVER written in any era...

For more info on that GREAT story check this site:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031228214259/http://theages.superman.ws/History/SandSaga.php

I think you'll really like it!!!

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself... A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself..." D.H. Lawrence

Which sucks, 'cause as I understand it, a lot of good stuff came from there. I suppose that fits the universe's sense of irony ... one good thing comes out of the seventies, it's Superman, and I don't get the read it. Yeesh.

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I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors
But I think that God has a sick sense of humor
And when I die I expect to find Him
Laughing

While still retaining much of the continuity that was developed during the 1960's under editor Mort Weisinger, the 70's seemed to present a more "matured" or refined version of that continuity.

Some examples:

1. The origin story: The 1970's saw the first attempt at nailing down a "definitive" Superman origin as well as a somewhat coherent Kryptonian/ El family history.

2. Retaining the more extreme Silver Age characters, like Krypto and Bizarro, yet relegating them to the "fringes" of continuity with only occasional appearances.

3. The supporting cast remaining intact, but giving them much more to do and growing them up a bit....such as Jimmy Olsen becoming a newspaper reporter, Lana Lang becoming a news anchorwoman, Clark Kent changing careers, etc.

4. Eliminating much of the "Kryptonian Klutter" that had sprung up during the 1960's. While the bottle city of Kandor still existed, Superman seldom visited it or referred to it much in any of his 1970's adventures. Much of the "magic fairy land" aspect of Krypton was downplayed (Thought Beasts, waterfalls made of fire) as were the sheer number of Kryptonian survivors established in the 1960's (a running joke through the silver age was that the ONLY people who seemed to actually DIE from Krypton exploding were Jor-El and Lara!).

In addition to the "matured" silver age continuity, there were some new things that had never been seen before in Superman comics:

1. A more thoughtful, philosophical Superman. He spent more time thinking about the ramifications of his actions and his role in society (see "Must There Be a Superman?" from Superman #247 for an example of this kind of story).

2. A maturing of the Lois Lane/Superman relationship. Lois was no longer the perpetual snoop getting into trouble, but an acknowledged romantic interest in Superman's life. While not the sharp talking, gun-toting co-adventurer the modern Lois is, the Lois Lane of the 1970's represented an important step in that direction. She no longer seemed to define herself in relation to Superman ("I hope he'll ask me to marry him someday....sigh.") and instead represented the new "liberated" female of the 1970's (or...as much as the middle-aged men creating the adventures UNDERSTOOD liberated females of the 1970 would allow).

3. The first time that people who were childhood FANS of Superman became CREATORS of Superman. This generation of writers, including Elliot S. Maggin and Martin Pasko, grew up reading Superman and brought their own unique "second generation" understanding to the character. Stories by these creators seemed to connect easier with young people and often dealt with the social issues of the time.

4. Multi-part stories. Up until Marvel Comics revolutionized the style and scope of the typical comic book story, DC comic books typically had two or three separate stories PER ISSUE. Once Marvel popularized the concept of the single story issue, DC followed suit. Gradually, Marvel's single issue stories bled over into multi-issue epics that raised the bar even higher for DC. Once again, DC followed suit....though not to the extent of Marvel's multi-issue story arcs. Superman comics started to include multi-issue stories as well as concepts that would reappear from time to time.

I could go on an on....but the same cannot be said for my lunch hour.

I hope that gives you a little glimpse into the magic of the 1970's Superman.

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Bizarro Mark

The young are moved by greatness. They are inspired by it. Children need heroes. They need them to lift life, to suggest a future you can be hungry for. They need them because heroes, just by being, communicate the romantic and yet realistic idea that you can turn your life into something great. The key, of course, is to have the right heroes--to be lifted by greatness and not just by glamour, to be lit by the desire to do good, as opposed to the desire to do well.

When I said I didn't think I'd ever read one, I was wrong. In the Best Superman Stories Ever Told, I found and read Must There Be A Superman and For The Man Who Has Everything. But now I'm going to start looking for the Sandman saga, and I really would like to find the story of Clark and Lana working in TV. Somehow that intrigues me.

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King Krypton has spoken! Not that anyone's listening, of course. ;)

Check out the updated, expanded, and (IMO) improved version of my infamous Superman movie script outline at http://web.archive.org/web/20031228214259/http://www.deceptions.net/superman/fan_fiction/fan.htm ...or don't, it really doesn't matter to me in the least.

"I am become Death, shatterer of worlds." - J. Robert Oppenheimer, quoting the Upanishad upon an early test of the atomic bomb

quote:

---

Originally posted by garythebari:

It appears that a lot of what I like about the 1986 makeover and beyond really started in the 70s, right? The longer, more involved, less cheesy stories....

---

Disclaimer: Unfortunately, the 70's also had their share of cheesy stories....VERY cheesy stories...particularly toward the end of the decade. The late 70's and early 80's stories are among the most forgettable of Superman's entire 60+ year run. Julius Schwartz, the editor, was getting tired and seemed to slip back into kind of an early Silver Age mode. The horrible inking of Frank Chiaramonte over the beautiful pencils of Curt Swan was also tough to sit through.

If you're gonna start buying back issues, concentrate on the early to mid-70's. Some of the best stuff appeared then and Curt Swan was inked by Murphy Anderson...in my opinion the best inker of Swan's pencils.

quote:

---

Originally posted by garythebari:

But now I'm going to start looking for the Sandman saga, and I really would like to find the story of Clark and Lana working in TV. Somehow that intrigues me.

---

Look no futher than Superman #233, the "kickoff" issue of the "new Superman". In addition to an incredible Neal Adams cover, this story featured the beginning of the new direction for Superman with Clark Kent's reassignment to TV news and the elimination of the Kryptonite threat....which leads to the creation of the Quaarm sand creature.

Let me know if you'd like some additional recommendations for individual issues.

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Bizarro Mark

The young are moved by greatness. They are inspired by it. Children need heroes. They need them to lift life, to suggest a future you can be hungry for. They need them because heroes, just by being, communicate the romantic and yet realistic idea that you can turn your life into something great. The key, of course, is to have the right heroes--to be lifted by greatness and not just by glamour, to be lit by the desire to do good, as opposed to the desire to do well.

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King Krypton has spoken! Not that anyone's listening, of course. ;)

Check out the updated, expanded, and (IMO) improved version of my infamous Superman movie script outline at http://web.archive.org/web/20031228214259/http://www.deceptions.net/superman/fan_fiction/fan.htm ...or don't, it really doesn't matter to me in the least.

"I am become Death, shatterer of worlds." - J. Robert Oppenheimer, quoting the Upanishad upon an early test of the atomic bomb

I didn't see much of Gil Kane, but I do recall his work, I think ... or maybe I've got my timelines screwed up. I was five years old when the 70s mercifully came to an end (this should give you teenagers a clue as to just how horrible the 70s were ... a toddler was disgusted by them).

------------------
I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors
But I think that God has a sick sense of humor
And when I die I expect to find Him
Laughing

Anyway, I would say Anderson was the perfect inker. Williamson (in the eighties), Klein and Oksner come second. With Chiaramonte and Adkins doing competent jobs. But there were some positively bad inkers--Blaisdell did Curt no favours, but his inks were respectable when compared with Vin Colletta who murdered Swan. Since Colletta came immediately after Anderson, the comparison was all the more horrific. It tore my heart out each issue, as I remembered the great Swanderson work, and saw Vinnie's pathetic scratchings.

Yeah there were cheesy stories. But there were lots of great stories, too. And even the cheesy stories have a nice sense of character.

Lana's return to Superman (she had been absent for almost the whole decade of the seventies) came during Pasko's run. She became the new GBS co-anchor, and a four way romance developed between Superman, Lane, Kent, and Lang. Although Lana never really stood a chance. Lana forms the underlying subtext of almost Pasko's entire run, and the basic theme is Superman's love for Lois vs. his love for Earth. Near the end of the run Lana comes to realize that she never was anywhere near to winning his heart. And yet, the reader has come to love Lana, wishes it could be otherwise--ultimately we see things through her eyes and see the complexity of the world where people can't help but hurt each other. This is Superman's sad dilemma and his realization. He's the kind of guy who wants to treat everybody nice, and yet he can't--no matter what choices he makes there will always be someone who gets hurt.

The early seventies was a good model for what today's Superman should be. All the books were linked in a fashion, but you didn't have to read one to understand the other. And there was all kinds of serious stuff going down in each book (with the possible exception of Action, which primarily concentrated on telling good stories). Superman was a real guy and went through some tough soul searching.

The later seventies gave us Pasko's sensitive storyline in Superman, while Action had basicly entertaining stuff, and DC Comics Presents had some epic content from Jim Starlin. But there wasn't the kind of intensity to these books that there had been in the early seventies.

The middle seventies was satisfying for me, but it's a hard case to make that it would be satisfying for everyone else. Because what I liked was the dependable samenity of it all...You have to realize DC tended to go in a decline at the middle of the seventies and a lot of good talent left the company. Far too many books were being put out by raw untried talent who might one day be great but weren't all that great right then. Sometimes a star new talent would come along--like Marshall Rogers--or a seasoned pro would do a little bit here and there (as with Engelhart or Starlin). But in Superman I knew I could get solid storytelling from Bates and Maggin, consistent pencils from Swan, and sometimes good inks from the likes of Bob Oksner or Dan Adkins.

That's what I liked. Superman was my Mary Tyler Moore Show. Just as Mary always had a good show each week, so did Superman each month. And the gang in Superman were a lot like those on MTM (I think Bates actually scripted a few MTM shows)--Perry was Lou, Clark was Murray, Lois was Mary, and Steve (Lombard) was Ted. Well okay, Clark wasn't quite Murray, but you get my point. And there was character development (developing ultimately to that four issue drama in Superman 196-199--where CK and LL had "boef bourgenon" which seemed to be code for sex), it's just that the character development was not popping your eyeballs out stuff. And we didn't expect things to change. Change was not what that Superman was about--instead the writers played with the formula.

Nice positive posts!!!

I think its GREAT to see someone else enjoyed that era and those stories...

I've always thought that part of the "problems" (if any ) with those books is in the comparisons today�s readers make with today's stories...

It is and was a completely different ballgame... And while I think that those 70's book suffer a bit in comparison to todays flashier books, there were still MANY, MANY gems that came from that period of time...

All anyone has to do is take the time to find & read them or ask some of us here for some info...

I think that your whole-hearted endorsement of those books is to be commended... I think its wonderful that there are still folks out there who are not "ashamed" to say they enjoyed those stories...

I know that both Bizzaromark and myself feel the same way you do...

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself... A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself..." D.H. Lawrence

Has the "Sandman Saga" been reprinted in TPB?

I don't mean issue #232, which has been reprinted in the 70s TPB and a Millennium Edition, but the whole storyline.

quote:

---

Originally posted by India Ink:
(developing ultimately to that four issue drama in Superman 196-199--where CK and LL had "boef bourgenon" which seemed to be code for sex)

---

Thanks for the positive words Kev-El.

1- I'd appreciate any Top Ten issues/stories lists of this period from anyone. With ish #s please.

2 - Later period I believe, but what ish was Kandor's enlargement? 336?

3 - Also later period, but what Action issues are the Luthor storyline where he supposedly goes "good" but we find out he hynotized himself? I think it was four-parter.

4- Finally, got any favorite sci-fi themed stories during the Swanderson period? Other worlds, parallel universes, the future, the classic themes.

Thanks to any responders in advance.

Click over to the LSH board and check out our bizarre humor topics. Ya might get some chortles, even a guffaw.

I'm not sure where I got it because it was made a couple years *before* I was born yet its in with the stuff I got as a kid.

Superman no. 257 featuring Green Lantern Tomar-Re as the GL who assigned the sector of the galaxy Krypton inhabited.

A fantastic story as Tomar Re realy feels the pain of failure for having not been able to save Krypton.

Also I think this is where Lara Lor-Vans yellow outfit that we saw in R2K comes from. Is it bad of me to think Supermans mom is goregous?

I have some other comics from the seventies though not quite as good. I deeply respect Curt Swan and his commitement and love for Superman but I've never been a fan of his work. I found the art in this issue much better.

Anyway, its great stuff and has made me decide to go out and get the Superman in the 70's trade. I've been reading alot about these stories on websites and I'm really enjoying them.

The concept of the "sword of Superman" is wonky, but I can dig the idea of his destiny to become Rao one day. I like what Grant Morrison did with this in DC One Million.

I liked that Tomar Re story, too, Solarlord. With Dick Dillin doing the pencils.

He proved that power-levels don't freaking matter when you write the icons as people and make their challenges intresting on multiple levels.

This is actually a newly-developed opinion. Although I own and have read "The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told," I held off in making a final judgment. I want to like Silver Age, I really do. As a curio, I will admit the stories are interesting. Many (but not all) of the story elements are intriguing as well. But honestly, the quality of narrative and its execution is so poor that for me, their real entertainment value is quite low. The stories are not siple, they are simplistic.

Exposition is blatant. Characterization is either shallow and two-dimensional or maudlin and forced. Superman's feats don't strain credibility, they break it. The veracity of simple human interactions ring hopelessly false and contrived. There is absolutely no sense of danger in the stories because you feel the creators themselves took the material less than seriously.

Again, elements of these stories may be good. Sometimes the general plot may not be so bad (ironically, the synopses of the stories that you're liable to find in and around the internet are more enjoyable than the stories themselves). The execution is where the trouble lies.

There is no comparison to the Superman comics of today: The stories now are deeper, with more characterization, more truth, and seem to express more thoughtfulness from the creators. Superman now has dynamics. The situations he finds himself in and the solutions he devises are, though fantastic, generally not as ludicrous. I feel I have more of a stake in this Superman. I feel that his experiences occur in a reality more like mine. I find his current adventures much more satisfying, indeed, exhiliarating.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Village Idiot:

There is no comparison to the Superman comics of today: The stories now are deeper, with more characterization, more truth, and seem to express more thoughtfulness from the creators. Superman now has dynamics.

---

Yeah, like that recent story where Clark revealed that he's a fan of the Beasty Boys (the bachelor party issue).

The Pre-Crisis Superman never had that kind of depth.

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Bizarro Mark

"No arsenal or weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."

But as you say yourself, many of the ideas and concepts in the stories do have alot of merit. Whereas in modern comics we seem to have the exact opposite. We have some really wacked out, convoluted, under done, over done, and some outright stupid ideas that are executed with sophistication and depth.

Also though, do keep in mind that the preception of comics being just and only a kids medium (not to mention the Comics Code) was so much more entrenched than it is today. So you'd often have very high minded ideas needing to be funneled through in a simplistic fashion.

There was also just a different style to comics writing then. Much of the time this style worked very well. Many other times it didn't.

I say its time to marry the two. The better ideas to the better execution.

Also one thing I want to clear up is that 70's Superman is not exactly the Silver Age Superman. Technically he's the Bronze Age Superman which was basically an evolution of the Silver Age Superman minus alot of the sillier and more annoying things of the Silver Age version.

LOL. Also, bizzaromark has a very good point. Not all the execution in modern in Superman comics is high-brow.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha! That was funny. I'm actually laughing as I'm writing this.

But you also bring up a good point: Who did the pre-crisis Superman like to listen to? I'd be surprised if such a personal character element was ever addressed, which goes back to my thesis.

Here here. On the other hand, I'd be more on board with the idea if we could clearly define what we mean by "good ideas." Good ideas to me are continuity, history, mythos. Villains such as Parasite, Braniac, Metallo, and yes, Luthor. Elements like Supergirl, Kandor, and Krypto. This is the stuff that endures; this is the stuff that works; and this is stuff that's already incorporated into the Modern Age.

Bad ideas are "Krytonian birthday sicknesses" (which somehow evolved, yet flies in the face of natural selection). A Krypto that thinks like a human instead of a dog. A Luthor who would rather "best" Superman than actually pose a serious threat. Ludicrously convenient glass domed flying saucers. Casually lifting and flying away with buildings. Terra-man.

Which is not to say that the current series doesn't have its ludricrous moments. I'm still waiting for an adequate explanation as to how Superman directed Krypto to use not just heat vision, but non-lethal heat vision (!?). And of course, there's the "1000 years in Valhalla" debacle.

I think most of the pre-crisis Superman, the parts I like, are either already part of the new continuity, or are becoming part of it thanks to the new team. And I like it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Village Idiot:

But you also bring up a good point: Who did the pre-crisis Superman like to listen to? I'd be surprised if such a personal character element was ever addressed, which goes back to my thesis.

---

I don't recall that Superman listened to any specific artist or style of music. There were times when Superman was pictured in his Fortress of Solitude either composing his OWN music (cool!) or listening to strange, other-worldly music he encountered in his many travels around the galaxy. To me, this fits the character much better than the banal attempt to make Superman "relevant" or "hip" and linking him to a specific band or style of music.

Secondly, and more importantly, I don't think it was ever stressed because, frankly, nobody really cared or thought the information was that important. Superman stories were about pure ADVENTURE, created for a much younger audience....personal details like music preference would have been pretty pointless in that day and age.

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Bizarro Mark

"No arsenal or weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."

Yes, well, anyway, you're right about the perceived standard that the creators felt that they were working towards: entertaining young children. However, richer characterization is not necessarily the exclusive domain of adults. Moreover, as adults (ok, arrested adolescents) we can appreciate a more nuanced characterization with stories that speak more specifically to our own experience.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Village Idiot:

Moreover, as adults (ok, arrested adolescents) we can appreciate a more nuanced characterization with stories that speak more specifically to our own experience.

---

Nuanced characterization? I don't think so. I just don't see what you're seeing in the current Superman titles.

Would you can Superman's all-too frequent temper tantrums of late "nuanced characterization"? You know, the stories showing him destroying planetoids and trashing stuff whenever he's frustrated? The only time that something like that was EVER shown in the Pre-Byrne Superman was when Supergirl died and Superman "popped a bolt". The dramatic power of that sequence shook you to your core, unlike the all-too common sight of the current Superman up-ending tables and punching the ground everytime he's angry.

And how about Lois Lane's horribly "one-note" personality? I find nothing about her character (as it's currently portrayed) the slightest bit "nuanced" or subtle.

I'm just not buying your theory that the modern Superman comics are so much more sophisticated than their 1970's predesessors. Different? Yes. More sophisticated? Hardly.

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Bizarro Mark

"No arsenal or weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."

quote:

---

Originally posted by SOLARLORD:

Superman no. 257 featuring Green Lantern Tomar-Re as the GL who assigned the sector of the galaxy Krypton inhabited.

A fantastic story as Tomar Re realy feels the pain of failure for having not been able to save Krypton.

---

Absolutely - and you can find it at http://web.archive.org/web/20031020074910/http://www.fortress.am/tales2/greatestGL/

I don't see why there's anything wrong with finding Lara gorgeous - especially in this story

But taken within the context of the story itself, indeed, Superman has had trouble managing his anger lately. For a "Superman," he's been proven fairly impotent (Luthor as President, etc.). As an outlet, he chooses to pummel inanimate objects. In private.

Further, its not too far of an interpetive reach to suggest that he also does this for the same reason that many others would: to remind himself that he indeed has some power. A physical guy taking a physical (albeit non-productive) measure.

This is a Superman who feels things. A man who, like us, is subject to his emotions. A person who doesn't just "do" things (like thwart the villain by creating an air vortex of some kind by flying in circles), but also reacts to his world, sometimes unwisely. This is a deeper Superman, and a deeper, and yes, more sophisticated way of telling the story.

And Lois. You cannot tell me that Lois does not have more depth than her Pre-Crisis counterpart. Silver Age Lois had two dimension: spunky reporter getting into trouble, in love with Superman. She evolved. Now Lois now has a history. She has a family. Her personality is the product that family, for whom she had mixed feelings. She loves Superman, but struggles with that at times as well. This is a much more complex characterization than anything I could find in "Superman in the Seventies."

And in terms of more subtle nuances, as an example, look at how Superman's fear is conveyed. Rarely blatantly articulated, often indicated obliquely. Sometimes, like us, Clark is bold and confident. Also sometimes, and also like us, he's insecure. The best example of the exploration of these themes is in "Superman for All Seasons." Moreover, the presentation of all the characters in Superman in the Modern Era is clearly done with more verisimilitude, more sophistication, and more nuance than you're likely to find in the seventies.

Whew. This was a long one. Thanks for listening (or skimming, as the case may be).

It reads like the true story from which the legends spun off, and all the previous incarnations are those legends, fun to read for some, but no match for the Superman who really lived and inspired those tales. From 1986 through 1999 I beleved that Lois and that Clark, that Metropolis, that (those) Lex Luthor(s), those plots worthy of Dickens.

In the last year and a half it has watered down somewhat, it doesn't have the same "real" quality, but it still is kind of on the track.

It's tough arguing with the brass that they should pop for higher-grade paper, or transfer their printing contract to some place in Canada where they do OFF-SET printing. Or do full-bleed art. But Schwartz looked at some old newspapers when he was in '97, and before you know it--through well placed investments and horse-betting--Julie's a bazillionaire and actually buys out Time-Warner. Now he can make DC do anything he WANTS!

So they do all the conversions. They have to have a lot of lead time on production, though, because they don't have computers. John Costanza actually has to letter all those beautiful fonts himself, by hand--no computer program for him. And the colouring department have to do everything with airbrushes, and photographic plates--no computer separators here. Of course all this can be done (and was being done at magazines like Heavy Metal) in 1977--it's just a lot more expensive than using the computer systems we have now.

Next B.O. (Be Original) Schwartz directs Bates and Maggin and Pasko to write differently. He lays it all out for them--subjective point of view, no thought balloons, no resolution of a plot in a single issue, different characterization in tune with the mood of the 1990s rather than the 1970s, depowered heroes, overpowered villains. This isn't rocket science of course--Maggin, Bates, and Pasko know how to write, so this is just applying different conventions than the ones they have been using (but in movies, tv, soap opera, pulp novels, and Hemingway, there are different conventions, too--so these writers can do this new style while standing on their heads if that's what Julie wants).

Curt learns how to do the knew lay-out style while playing a game of solitaire.

I've always maintained that you MUST read these books in the spirit in which they were written...

You simply cannot read these books (Silver-Age, etc.) using or looking for the same things you do today in comic books...

It just doesn't work and won't work for you if you insist on comparing them in this way...

Although I will tell you all, there are some GREAT stories from those ancient times that would literally blow the socks off some of the stuff we get today...

Its been my experience that there is one particular writer who has mastered the genre and writes Silver-Age stories with a modern twist... His stories are, in almost every respect, the logical predecessors of those Silver-Age books...

The author???

None other than the GREAT Alan Moore!!!

He is THE absolute master of this subject and you can�t help but wonder the depth of the well of his imagination... He alone has made the transition of the various ages and molded them into his own...

I love the old books (and I literally have1000�sof them) I really do, but I will tell you this...

I still think this is a Great Time to be a Superman fan!!!

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself... A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself..." D.H. Lawrence

I was suggesting, however, that the conventions of the seventies--whether at Marvel or DC--were different than the conventions of the nineties.

There really isn't that much difference between seventies Marvel and DC. The difference was more obvious in the sixties.

But things like the rather overused first person narrative (where did this start becoming so popular--Dark Knight Returns? or Watchmen?), full bleed art, defined arcs that stretch over months or even years (there were arcs on Superman in the seventies--a few of them have been mentioned in this thread--it's just that they weren't made out to be "arcs"), special colour effects and lettering effects (Swamp Thing had special lettering effects in the early seventies, but these all had to be done painstakingly by hand), interlinkage up the whazoo, and stories slanted toward a particular cultural milieu that didn't exist in the seventies--things like this seem to add narrative depth because the young reader is so enmired in the culture that he automatically understands that these conventions are signs of narrative depth.

I bought Thriller (the comic book) in the eighties and I thought it amazing for its new narrative innovations. But it didn't sell--because the readership wasn't ready for it. Nowadays those innovative things that were done in Thriller are routine for any comic book.

Same thing sort of with Wasteland--although I think the mainstream medium is still not ready for an anthology title like Wasteland (Flinch doesn't come close--nowhere near Dell Close).

Same thing sort of with Kirby's Fourth World. Kirby was ahead by a few years. He needed the direct sales market to support his book and it didn't exist yet (certainly not at DC). The stuff Kirby did back then is being done now, even in the Superman books--although there are no writer/artists who are capable of producing four bi-monthly interlinked books these days (maybe Byrne if he could get his act together). The closest thing to Kirby is Moore on the ABC books, but there's no overt linkage with his books and he only scripts, he doesn't draw.

But these are obvious examples--if one researched back through the history of comics one would find works that are magnificently complex, while still remaining dead simple in their execution.

----twenty-five SWANDERSONs twenty-five

Superman

1) # 237 (May'71) "Enemy of Earth," story: Denny O'Neil, 22 pages.
--I could probably include all nine issues of the Sandman Saga, but that would take up too many slots on my list, so I've decided to include just a couple of representative stories. This is a personal favourite because it's the first issue I bought (after not reading Superman for a couple of years) and it introduced me to all the changes. But I like it for other reasons, too--like the ants. Lois is on assignment in South America, there's a marching army of red ants coming ever closer to her, while Superman is exiled in space. Swan and Anderson were great at doing very realistic, very detailed flora and fauna. The ants are amazing, and when they grow to giant size, watch out!

2) # 242 (Sept. '71) "The Ultimate Battle," story: O'Neil, 22pages.
--The big you'll never forget it conclusion to the whole saga. Chinese demons, a sand creature, a couple of homeless guys, a blind oriental sage, and the Metropolis Marvel. When they said "Ultimate," they meant it.

3) #243 (Oct. '71) "The Starry-Eyed Siren of Space," story: Cary Bates, 18 pages.
--after nine issues of earth-bound story-telling we get a completely different kind of story, set in outer-space. Mainly a Star Trek tale, this story is pretty standard science fiction stuff (two highly advanced energy beings in containment cells want to know what it's like to have real bodies), but what I like about it are all the wierd hanging unresolved details. For some reason at the start of the story, unwittingly, Superman has flown back in time (as he realizes at the story's end), but just why this was important is never made clear (it's for us to imagine). There's mention of a space-legend about starry-eyed sirens (another promising story possibility that remains unresolved). And the story finishes with some other guy who also looks like Superman and has his powers (never resolved) wandering around space in the distant past. I also like the skeletal monster that comes to life.

4) #246 (Dec. '71) "Danger Monster at Work!" story: Len Wein, 17 pages.
--This one has a front story showing STAR labs (a new concept in the Superman stories at this time) where Superman brings a strange germ that becomes a monster, but weaved into this is a back story about some of the people at Clark's apartment building forming a vigilante group. Among those at 344 Clinton Street we get to see the doorman Frank, wheel-chair bound Mrs. Goldstein, Nathan Warbow, Mr. & Mrs. Lewis, Jonathan Slaughter, and Harold Jenkins, while the mysterious Mr. X is mentioned but never seen (Mr. X--Mr. Xavier--is mentioned in other tales, like The Private Life of Clark Kent story in 254, by Len Wein and Neal Adams, and in 258, another TPLOCK, the story by Bates, Swan, and Giordano asks "Who is Mr. X?" I believe this was all an in-joke--apparently Prof. X of the X-Men was residing in Clark's apartment building).

5) #247 (Jan. '72) TPLOCK: "When on Earth..." story: Denny O'Neil; art: C. DOuglas Swan, M. Clyde AndersOn--with the "O" in those credits lettered larger than the other letters--8 pages.
--I believe this was the first in the series of Private Life stories. "When on Earth..." do as Earthlings do. The story centres on ordinary Clark trying to help the younger brother of his secretary at WGBS. Bick has fallen in with a rough crowd, and Clark goes to the bad part of town (where the taxi drivers don't stop, they just slow down to let you off) to try and reason with the lad. There's a scene in Clark's apartment where he tries smoking a pipe and gives it up in disgust, wondering why human's smoke such horrible stuff. In the bad part of town, Murphy does a beautiful shading thing on the bottom of page five (using a wash?) that gives it all a murky photographic look. Murphy was doing stuff like that at this time. The lead story in this issue was Maggin's "Does the World Need a Superman?" which has been reprinted a couple of times--but I felt, although a great story, it's gotten too much attention and didn't include it in this list.

continuing
twenty-five SWANDERSONs twenty-five

Superman

5 cont'd) # 247--repenting a few errors I made in haste...Maggin's lead story, of course, was "Must There Be A Superman?" And the older sister of Bick, in the back-up story, was Amy, a WGBS receptionist, but not necessarily Clark's secretary, as I stated.

6) # 249 (March '72) "The Challenge of Terra-Man," story: Bates, 18 pages.
--Would someone enlighten me as to why this seventies villain is so maligned? I don't get it. I like this character--he's one of the best Superman villains created in the seventies (there weren't that many). He's not Darkseid nor the Joker. Those kinds of villains demand epic material--and suffer from overuse. So Terra-Man fills in for the more normal stories between the epics. He's like so many other villains in Schwartz books (Captain Cold, the Tattooed Man, Chronos, Amos Fortune, Johnny Witts)--he's not terribly handsome, an ordinary guy with a mix of the old west and space-opera functioning as a working class super-villain. He does the job and gives the artists an opportunity for interesting visuals--a winged horse, sci-fi techware, old west fashions.

In one issue we get Archie and Edith, a beautiful scene of Terra-man on his Arguvian space-steed against the twilight cityscape, Krytonian history files, and a back-up story by Bates, Dick Dillin, and Neal Adams ("The Origin of Terra-Man," seven pages). You read the lead story, and then the back-up, and then you have to go back and read the lead again because you now understand Terra-Man much better and the story reads differently the second time through.

7) # 255 (Aug. '72) "The Sun of Superman," story: Bates, 16pages.

8) # 257 (Oct. '72) "Superman Battles the War-Horn!" story: Bates, 16 pages.

9) # 262 (March '73) TPLOCK "Puzzle of the Telepathic Twins!" story: Elliot S! Maggin, 9 pages.

10) # 264 (June '73) "Secret of the Phantom Quarterback!" story: Bates, 16 pages.

11) # 267 (Sept. '73) "World Beneath the North Pole!" story: Maggin, 16 pages.

12) # 270 (Dec. '73) "The Viking from Valhalla!" story: Maggin, 14 pages.

Page three, the title page, has Clark crashing through a wharf down into the water below it, all the while musing in his private thoughts, and changing clothes to become Superman and fly out of the water--ALL IN ONE PANEL. One of those things Curt would do every now and then...showing a body in motion through multiple movements all in one panel and every twist and turn leading naturally into the next--other artists would have used several panels.

So this page was featured in The Amazing World of Superman--Metropolis Edition (1973)--a black and white tabloid size edition (from Metropolis, Illinois) that I sent away for in the mail. And there was a big feature detailing every phase of how a comicbook is made. The feature showed the typed script, pencilled page, lettered page, and inked page for page three of "Superman Battles the War-horn."

Not just that, but all kinds of photographs, as well...including Dennis O'Neil typing a script, Curt Swan pencilling a page, Murphy Anderson inking, Julie Schwartz schwartzing, Sol Harrison producing, Joseph Letterese and Morris Waldinger and Gaspar Saladino lettering, Lillian Mandel scheduling the layout, Gerda Gattel proofreading, young Alan Kupperberg correcting art, Glynnis Wein doing paste-ups. Jack Adler and E. Nelson Bridwell are in there, too (don't know what they're up to). And getting together the foreign editions of DC books, Lois Baker and Milt Snappin. And photos of the engravers--Chemical Colorplate in Bridgeport, Connecticut. And photos of virtually every stage of the printing process at World Color Printing in Sparta, Illinois.

10) "Secret of the Phantom Quarterback!"
--Oh, poor Clark--this story marks a rather dreary turn of events in his life as it ends with Steve Lombard being hired as the resident jock in the WGBS news division. And the overbearing fella would try to make Clark's life miserable (although Clark usually turned Steve's tricks upon himself)--but he wasn't all bad (how could he be with a smart, attractive aunt like mystery-writer Kaye Daye).

11) "World Beneath the North Pole"
--begins with an insult that shoulda made a man out of Clark, as they are all at the beach (Steve, Clark, and Lois) and Steve kicks sand in Clark's face. But Clark meets Jamie Lombard--the nephew of Steve--and soon Superman and Jamie are on an adventure to the top of the world and below it to a Pellucidarian land in search of Jamie's lost father. Much as this story borrows from ERB and Jules Verne it also predicts Grell's Warlord (set in another world beneath the North Pole).

12) "The Viking from Valahalla"
--Still another lost world was Valhalla, Maine where Valdemar the Viking resided (as first seen in Superman # 260). Valdemar decides to visit the big city where his friend, Superman, lives and comes riding on his giant falcon (Skagerrak) swinging his flaming sword.

Okay, yes, I can see the point that some might make--this is silly, all these lost worlds, etc. But they accomplish one main thing--showing us an interesting juxtaposition of many unrelated elements. The sight of Valdemar upon that great falcon in the city's canyons of steel, concrete, and glass--the beauty of Anderson's inks on that marvelously detailed bird--somehow contains greater meaning than the simple plot might suggest. These scenes work on a level that goes right past the rational mind and directly to the place where dreams reside.

I also like the fact that Superman/Clark could be equally at home among some rather far-out dudes OR down-to-earth working class folk.

Action Comics

13) # 398 (March '71) Untold Tales of the Fortress: "Spawn of the Unknown," story: Geoff Brown (aka Leo Dorfman), 8 pages.
--At this time Murray Boltinoff was the resident editor on Action and, although he followed the changes in the other books (like Superman, Lois Lane, & Jimmy Olsen ), he didn't set trends. In fact his books seemed like a fusion of old-style Weisinger Superman and the Amazing New Adventures. There were no Sandman Sagas to be found here (or Fourth Worlds).

Keeping up the tradition were two mainstays from the Weisinger era--senior writer Leo Dorfman and young enfant terrible Cary Bates (Bates began writing for the Superman books in the mid-sixties when he was about fourteen or so).

It is, of course, the story of Superman's son, Gregor, his strange transformations and his tragic death. Actually Gregor was Gregor Nagy, son of scientist Jan Nagy, but upon Jan's death Superman becomes the teen's new guardian. Gregor is none to happy with this arrangement, and then begins to display unusual powers of transformation, earning him the name "Changeling!"

15) # 408 (Jan. '72) "The Secret of Super-X!" story: Bates, 7 pages.
--Although this back-up appears under the title of "Superman," it was in fact another one of those short-lived series, although it would return as "Superman--the In-Between Years," ie. stories about Superman/boy's years at college, after leaving Smallville but before coming to Metropolis.

16) # 414 (July '72) "Superman vs. Superstar!" Bates, 15 pages.
--The actor is the perfect realization of Swan and Anderson's Man of Steel. Appearing in a series of Superman films, he becomse idolized by millions, as though he were the real Superman. But then tragedy strikes, and the superstar meets with an accident that will forever change his body.

The actor in this case is Gregory Reed and the accident is a fire on the set not a fall from a horse. Reed manages to fake being Superman's double, but in the end Kal-El discovers the tragic truth. A few years later, Reed would recover his amazing good looks and resemblance to the Man of Steel.

Of course, Bates didn't know there would ever be a Christopher Reeve--Gregory Reed is intended as a tragic echo of George Reeves, the TV Superman.

The dialogue crackles with brilliant and funny exchanges such as the greetings between Brainiac and Grax on the first page...
Brainiac: "Grax--you! Why you bluefaced freak...I ought to--"
Grax: "You 12th level moron, you dare threaten a 20th order intelligence? I'll scramble your circuits!"

This two-parter brought together Luthor, Brainiac, Grax (last seen in Action 342) and the Maurauder (last seen in Action 378) in an uneasy alliance, presumably to make peace with Superman.

Luthor, by the way, has given up his prison greys at this time--he's wearing a space-age green, black, and white number--it would be a few more years before he started wearing that purple and green super-suit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by SOLARLORD:
Also one thing I want to clear up is that 70's Superman is not exactly the Silver Age Superman. Technically he's the Bronze Age Superman which was basically an evolution of the Silver Age Superman minus alot of the sillier and more annoying things of the Silver Age version.

---

To be honest, I feel like the Swan and Oksner (Swoksner) Superman is MY Superman. Because...I came in on the Swan and Anderson work after it was well under way, and Colletta's inks after that were so disappointing that Oksner's inks looked all the better by comparison. And I just like Bob Oksner's art--as an inker but also as a penciller. He drew Mary Marvel the way I would always like to see her and before being a Superman inker he worked on many many DC humour comics.

Perhaps one day I'll tackle the Swoksner Superman, but right now let's continue with...

twenty-five SWANDERSONs twenty-five

in

Action

20) # 421 (Feb. '73) "The Fantastic Feats of Captain Strong!" story: Bates, 16 pages.

--Captain Strong is essentially an homage to Popeye (as Bill Blackbeard said, "the first >arf, arf< Super-hero"), and after making his debut here he became part of the ever-expanding cast of supporting characters. He's also essentially the pre-Crisis version of Bibbo.

Billy Anders appears in this story, too. I neglected to mention him before, mainly because I never cared for the character. A little kid who was part Billy Batson and part Freddy Freeman, there was a story arc going on in the Superman title which had this blonde boy gaining the Man of Steel's powers and Superman having to imagine a lynx in order to become super. I didn't like it--yes, there were stories back then that I didn't like--I also didn't like the storyline that had Perry meeting some young mutants (who in a subsequent story would give him cigars that made him super). As for Strong, he got his powers from seaweed ("sauncha" laced with an alien element) not spinach.

21) # 428 (Oct. '73) "Whatever Happened to Superman?" story: Bates, 13 pages.

--not "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" (the final pre-Crisis Superman story by Alan Moore, Curt Swan, George Perez, and Kurt Schaffenberger) but probably part of the inspiration for that story. In this one, while still in prison Luthor has had a confederate on the outside launch a satellite which emits a powerful hypnotic beam--making everyone believe that Superman has not been active for the past ten years. Despite his powerful feats, no one sees Superman in action (their minds convince them that they're seeing something else like a mounted policeman's horse suddenly springing wings and taking flight).

24) #432 (Feb. '74) "Target of the Toy-Men!" story: Bates, 13 pages.
--You have to realize that in the sixties all the reprint 80 page giants published stories from mainly the fifties and the sixties--so most readers (myself being one) were limited to this contained view of the DC world. But in the early seventies, this policy was reversed (apparently the policy had been maintained because the forties golden age material was viewed as inferior in quality), and we now got to see a great deal of raw (and sometimes quality) material from the golden age. A reprint in one of those 100 page Super-Spectaculars (for 50c) was an eye-opener--it featured the golden-age Toy-Man. All we readers knew of the Toy-Man was the rather conventional cousin to the Prankster with his shortish hair, green suits, and ties. But this reprint showed a long-haired smock-wearing bohemian Toy-Man.

In Action 432, the original Toy-Man is in retirement, but returns when a new upstart Toy-Man tries to steal his thunder--and our original has the smock and the long hair (although his locks have turned white by now). This trend of bringing villains back to their raw roots would continue through the seventies, with the Toy-Man being one of the best examples.

Which leaves only the last of the twenty-five

twenty-five SWANDERSONs twenty-five

which was printed in the tabloid-size Amazing World of Superman--Metropolis Edition (1973)--which I mentioned earlier--in black and white with grey shading; and then in the tabloid-size Limited Collector's Edition C-31 (Oct-Nov. '74) in colour; and then in the Warner Books softcover, at closer to regular comic-book page size, Secret Origins of DC Super-Heroes (1976), also in colour...

25) "The Origin of Superman," layout: Carmine Infantino, pencils: Curt Swan, inks: Murphy Anderson, dialogue: E. Nelson Bridwell, 15 pages.
--essentially this story draws together all of the origins printed thusfar and weaves them together into one story. Many of the scenes and even the words are lifted from those previous origins, with some alterations or extrapolations here and there. But as the resident expert on Superman lore, Bridwell was certainly the man to pull all this stuff together (even though he's not credited for the "story" just the dialogue, and even much of that isn't his own invention). And Carmine Infantino on lay-outs (the then presiding publisher at National Periodical Publications)! to actually have Infantino, Swan, and Anderson all collaborating on one story was a Silver-Age fan's dream come true.

Quite a marvelous response by you to my inquiries about the Swanderson period. Your details and descriptiopns are very helpful in sparking my memories of not only the stories but also of my own favorites among your top 25 issues.

I have copied your list and checkmarked my faves. I happened to grab Action 400 almost by accident at a recent con, and I'll probably get to it this week.

If you're interested, I'll provide my Top Ten of Supes during the 60s, but off the top of my head so I'll probably forget some contenders. In no order...

SM 141 - Return to Krypton - probably my fave, truly ahead of it's time (FYI for collectors, I believe it was reprinted in Superman #232.)

149 - Death of Superman - the classic, a real sense of loss at the end, even though it's an imaginary story. (Reprinted in #193)

156 - Virus X - Swan/Klein at their best, don't know why (maybe the superior coloring?) but the art just stands out more so in this issue

158 - The Kandor story - great intrigue, Swan Kryptonscapes at their best (I just coined that term right here! Everybody use it twice a week!)

162 - Superman Red & Blue - just a fun wish fullfillment (Ever wonder what happened to Superman Yellow? Daredevil probably knows. But the Marvel bastard ain't talkin'!)

164 - Superman Vs. Luthor - mano y mano, the best "personal" battle between them, really felt the long time rivalry come to loggerheads.

167 - Luthor & Brainiac - their first team-up, great characterization and origin story, DC silver age at it's best

Action 300 - Superman Under A Red Sun - almost a wistful sci-fi tale (I recall there was a big goof at the ending; switched in midstream deus ex machinas.)

292 & 294 - Luthor kills a robot - an interesting morality tale, loved the covers

Superman Ann 4 - Villains of Space & Time - Okay, not original material, but the best 60s DC Annual by far for my money, and it also has the great eyecatching Legion feature (which I feel was decisive in establishing the Legion as a "real" group in the DC universe.)

Most of these stories involved Lex Luthor, truly the #2 character in Superman comics during the 60s.

Once again, thanks for you comprehensive top 25 list. I'll probably check it a couple times after I get some more of the issues.

In my own list of sixties stories would most definitely appear the three-part Action story of Superman flying to the end of time--stopped by the Time Trapper from returning to the present. As this is off the top of MY head I can't give issue numbers, but it was around 1968 I think...

I remember going to Keller's Drugs with my Dad and picking up this Action and groaning when I realized it was continued--I hated continued comics, hated hated them. I then got the conclusion--BUT, because drugstores were so unreliable for having every issue (which is why I so hated continued comics, because I rarely got to read the end of the story or sometimes the beginning!), I never got the middle part--because of all things this was a THREE parter and THEN I pretty much gave up on comics all together for a couple of years.

It was only years later that I actually did get that second part of the story.

The Galactic Golem

Superman # 248 (Feb. '72) "The Man Who Murdered the Earth!" 18 pages.

Superman # 258 (Nov. '72) "Fury of the Energy-Eater!" 16 pages.

story for both: Len Wein; art for both: Curt Swan & Murphy Anderson.

--I remember in the seventies reading a comment by Len Wein about how he doesn't write villains as totally evil. All his characters are characters and therefore full of the same emotions that you and I share. They do bad things, just as sometimes we do bad things, but not really for bad reasons--in their own moral universe they are true to their nature. This reminds me somewhat of the movie "Red," where the judge realizes that he cannot judge, because if he puts himself in the shoes of the accused then he does indeed put himself in those shoes and therefore can see no other choice being possible while being in those shoes.

Without too much elaboration, we understand this about Lex Luthor in the first story. Narrated from his point of view, his motivations seem reasonable. Luthor is indeed the greatest genius that the Earth might ever know. Superman and his power present problems for Luthor to solve. In attempting to solve these problems he creates his own monster (as with Frankenstein--a point he openly admits) and inadvertently destroys the world. Luthor is chastened by this catastrophic result--he is a moral man and never intended the Earth's doom.

I like that Luthor's narrative is grounded in reason. What bugs me about the overused first person in today's narratives is that it's rarely ever explained--and if you think about it too hard it doesn't seem at all plausible. Luthor in this story provides a record because he wishes that any alien lifeforms should understand how the catastrophe arrived so as they might solve it--and also by thinking it through, Lex hopes to possibly come up with his own solution.

I like this Lex. He is heroic in his own way. Moreover, we see him here in the lab-coat that he wore back in the early fifties. Len Wein seems to have given the character of Lex Luthor a lot of thought.

But I don't like the cheat of the story. The convenient fact that everyone in the world, but Lex (it would seem) was shunted off to another dimension, and then back again without any other after effects of such a shift.

We should remember that Len Wein was writing the first run of Swamp Thing tales around the time of these two Golem stories. Of course, ST is a golem, as is the Frankenstein monster (or "Spawn of Frankenstein" which was a back-up feature by Bernard Bailey over in the Phantom Stranger comic). The whole Jewish legend of the Golem may inform all of these stories. And then there also seems to be the influence of EC--Tales from the Crypt as well as Wierd Science.

Wein loves to set a mood and the first two pages of the second story do that with some poor nameless wanderer being pulled underground by the Golem, who takes his hat and coat, and pets his dog--but does the dog no harm.

Throughout this story we are treated to loopy turns of dialogue, sometimes outright funny or merely sardonic. Josh Coyle, floor director of the WGBS news, does not suffer fools gladly and probably thinks this Clark Kent is quite the fool. Even Superman has quite the smart mouth when bantering with the deadpan Golem.

The blokes at STAR don't come off as too intelligent--Professor Harry Potter??? Potter probably isn't Lana's uncle, the crackpot scientist from the Weisinger days, but he's still a bit goofy.

The whole story comes to its action-packed conclusion at the Fortress of Solitude--punctuated by choice ad-libs from the Man of Steel ("in the future, please open the door...those things are expensive to replace," "your breath is making me sick...," "want to bet, bright eyes--?" "it would probably be a lot cheaper to install a revolving door," "you could use a hot bath...").

And since the Fortress is at the North Pole this offers another refrain from the Frankenstein story, as the creature in that story was also stranded in the high arctic. Like Mary Shelley's creature, this Golem doesn't seem to intend evil. Both creatures destroy because it is in their nature to do so. The Galactic Golem is driven simply by his hunger for energy and all his actions are motivated by that one need.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pilgrim:
So is the Polyester Age the same as the Bronze Age then?

---

The "Polyester Age" is the post-Crisis term for the Bronze Age.

There's some great stuff on there. Entire stories available for reading (including the "Origin of Superman" that I mentioned a little earlier). And I'd forgotten that "Mr. Xavier" was the linch-pin that held together the Bates and Maggin four-part story in Superman # 296-299 (the first part, from 296, being available for reading at the Fortress) and illoed by Swan & Oksner (with Terry Austin serving as Bob's assistant at this time, if I don't miss my guess).

Anyone--ANYONE--with an interest in Superman (of any Age) should definitely check out this site if they haven't already!

------------------
Ink's links:

for Book of Oa--
http://web.archive.org/web/20030828141035/http://www.glcorps.org/book.html

for DC golden age sites--
http://web.archive.org/web/20030828141035/http://www.best.com/~blaklion/dc_links.html

fave photo--
http://web.archive.org/web/20030828141035/http://www.acmecity.com/wonderwoman/lansinar/186/sekowsky.jpg

for Diana Prince:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030828141035/http://homes.acmecity.com/wonderwoman/lansinar/186/dpindex1.html

What next, I wonder, Krypto the Superdog?

------------------
Ink's links:

for Book of Oa--
http://web.archive.org/web/20030610145025/http://www.glcorps.org/book.html

for DC golden age sites--
http://web.archive.org/web/20030610145025/http://www.best.com/~blaklion/dc_links.html

for Superman--
http://web.archive.org/web/20030610145025/http://www.fortress.am/

Plus you had Shooter-Grell on Superboy

Rogers-Engelhart on Batman

Dillin-Conway(?) on JLA and real team-ups with the JSA.

Byrne-Claremont on X-Men. The ONLY time I've every followed that title! Nuff Said!

quote:

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Originally posted by India Ink:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030610145025/http://www.starwinds-howl.com/

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Cool!

------------------
Cmdr. Leonard McCoy: Where are we going?

Admr. James T. Kirk: Where they went.

Cmdr. Leonard McCoy: Suppose "they went" nowhere.

quote:

---

Originally posted by India Ink:
In my own list of sixties stories would most definitely appear the three-part Action story of Superman flying to the end of time--stopped by the Time Trapper from returning to the present. As this is off the top of MY head I can't give issue numbers, but it was around 1968 I think...

I remember going to Keller's Drugs with my Dad and picking up this Action and groaning when I realized it was continued--I hated continued comics, hated hated them. I then got the conclusion--BUT, because drugstores were so unreliable for having every issue (which is why I so hated continued comics, because I rarely got to read the end of the story or sometimes the beginning!), I never got the middle part--because of all things this was a THREE parter and THEN I pretty much gave up on comics all together for a couple of years.

It was only years later that I actually did get that second part of the story.

I know that Cary Bates wrote it and Curt Swan drew it, but I'm not sure who inked it (Jack Abel???).

---

As Neil Gaiman's Sandman came to an end, there was a Wake held. In Chapter Two (issue 71) "In Which a Wake is Held" (by Gaiman, Michael Zulli, Todd Klein, Daniel Vozzo & Digital Chameleon), on page 22, first panel, Clark Kent, the Batman, and Martian Manhunter appear and have the following conversation...

Clark: Odd? As odd as the dreams where I'm a newsreader. Or the one where I've got an ant's head. Or where I'm a gorilla.
Once I dreamed I had this wierd virus and I had to keep going forward in time until the end of the universe...
The one I hate is where I'm just an actor on a strange television version of my life.
Have you ever had that dream?

Batman: Doesn't everyone?

Around about Oct. 17, 1974, I got Amazing World of DC Comics no. 2 (Sept. '74) in the mail.

Among its many beautiful features was a never before published Fat & Slat one page comic, a never before published HG Peter Wonder Woman story from the 40s, a never before published cover illustration (in the centrefold of this book) for House of Secrets by Berni Wrightson, an article on the Superboy TV show that never was (from the early 60s), an article by Paul Levitz on how comics are made (this piece, in a series, was on writing), an article on the comics-mobile, a piece about Kurt Schaffenberger,

an in memoriam for Leo Dorfman--died July 9, 1974--writer of detective novels, various works of fiction and non-fiction, and many many comics, including movie adaptations for Fawcett, Supergirl in Action, as well as Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Superboy, and of course Superman. Writer, too, of Believe it or Not for Gold Key, and later Ghosts (based on true ghost stories) for DC. "But what his friends will remember best will be his infectious smile and the sparkle in his eyes; the little acts of kindness he was apt to do at any time; and the good feeling he seemed to carry with him. His passing has left a void in all our lives."

a word puzzle by Bob Rozakis, and a splendid cover by Kurt Schaffenberger showing Cary Bates and Elliot S! Maggin at their typewriters, surrounded by The Flash, Green Lantern, Kurt Schaffenberger, Mon-El, Superman, Lois Lane, Tawky Tawny, Capt. Marvel Jr., Invisible Kid, Capt. Marvel, and Green Arrow

"Cary Bates and Elliot Maggin: The Men Behind the Super-Typewriter"

At one point, Guy is asking Bates about his earlier days at DC...
What was Weisinger's trademark?

Bates: He always had an angle, always wanted the original angle in a story. For instance, I had this story where the earth had become polluted, and I was going to do the floating city bit, with skyscrapers floating above the pollution. But Mort said no, have the buildings being added on to so that the people lived in the upper stories miles above the earth, and the lower third was deserted. Not a big thing, but a nice, original touch. Of all the editors, Mort plotted more stories than anyone. In other words, if a writer came in with a story idea and Mort didn't like it, the writer would ALWAYS leave with a plot and an assignment. It was often Mort's plot, but it was work.

How would you describe the "Weisinger plot?"

Bates: He chose to concentrate on the vast Superman mythology he created. When he ran the Superman books, he built up this family, but seldom got into Clark's personality or Lois'...there were standard bits, Lois was curious, Clark was always meek and mild, Jimmy was always an idiot, and this is how the readers indentified them for many years. But single-handedly Mort kept Supe going strong in no less than seven books for several decades. His track record was amazing.

How many stories do you think you wrote for Mort?

Bates: I worked for him the last three years he was at National so I guess altogether maybe fifty, sixty stories.

Any stand out in your mind?[b]

Bates: Yeah...the three-parter in Action where Superman aged, one of the last stories I did for him...

Maggin: That was [b]my favourite.

Bates: Why thank you, Elliot. I liked that story, too.

Let's see if I can give a summary of these stories--so I put the dates, don't have to do that again, right--it's Feb-April, 1970, in Action:

385: "The Immortal Superman!" by Bates and Swan and inker unknown, 15 pages--with a cover by Swan and Anderson showing a grey-haired and wrinkled (but still kinda handsome) Superman breaking green k chains and saying "I'm 100,000 years old...and mightier than ever! Even Kryptonite chains can't hold me anymore! Everyone I've ever known or loved is long dead! When will I die?" He seems to be standing in a medical theatre with doctors seated above him, and one answers, "Never! Our tests show you can't die, Superman!"

Splash page shows Superman floating above the ruins of the Fortress of Solitude which is now a tourist attraction. The caption reads "Superman is the most powerful being on Earth...But does that mean he will live longer than normal humans? Will he die after a hundred years? A thousand? No! The mighty Man of Steel will still be going strong a hundred thousand years from now! But will an eternal life, with no fear of death, be a blessing or a curse to 'The Immortal Superman!'"

As the story unfolds, Superman is in the oval office with the president. We don't see the Prez except in shadow, but judging by the profile--yup that's tricky Dick Nixon.

He's saying that the army's got this top secret vortex experiment going which "depends on the space-time continuum remaining undisturbed!" for 24 hours.

Supes says, "That's no problem, Mr. President! I didn't intend to crash the time-barrier this week, anyway!"

But just then a floating giant mechanical hand materializes in front of the Fortress of Solitude. Superman's security alarms alert him that something's wrong and he goes flying out of the White House and off to the Fortress and...

hey that panel looks like the title page for the Bates/Maggin interview in AWODCC (with a few adjustments). Hey! it is! Oh clever work you woodchucks on AWODCC...

The mechanical hand etches this message on the Fortress key lock door: "Superman your help urgently needed in year 101,970 coordinates x78-543/20"

Problem. Superman can't go through the time-barrier on his own power, but apparently it's okay to use a time machine. There's a defective Legion time-bubble in his fortress that the LSH left there to be scrapped. So off he goes into the distant future--100, 000 years!

But when he disembarks, his future hosts are aghast--"World's of Antares! That can't be Superman!" But the cerebral-micorder confirms that it must be!

Looking in a mirror, Superman realizes that the time-bubble "caused me to age every year along the way! I'm over 100,000 years old!"

His hosts doubt that Superman can still be as strong as legend tells, but when they bring out the strength-defier Superman is able to pry apart the "ultra rigid bars held in place by cosma-magnetism, the mightiest force in the universe!" [Shades of Arthur pulling the sword out of the stone, among other legends--like Odysseus stringing his bow upon his return to Ithaca.]

The future people then enlist Superman's aid in solving the mystery of how vast sums are being stolen from their monetary reserve chamber--their own champions are now in a "deathly para-coma" from trying to defeat whatever has been stealing the monetary funds. And so, in the vast vault, Superman faces down a deadly energy being, and manages to short-circuit it.

Case solved, Superman tries to go back in the time-bubble but crashes against a barrier in time. Same thing when he tries to do it on his own power.

An ethereal Time-Trapper looms in the cosmos, thinking "Heh-heh...You'll never see 1970 again, Superman... because my temporal force barrier will keep the past off-limits until the day you die--no matter how many thousands of years it takes!"

Meanwhile Superman decides to take a tour of the Earth and finds that all the buildings have been added onto, building them up above all the atomic fallout that has accumulated over the centures. Below these jutting spires is a deady radioactive mist.

He wanders into a museum of ancient history, but is nearly mistaken for a member of a gang of outlaws who wear the Superman costume as a sign of disrespect. Then he confronts a trio of metallic looking heroes--the "Multiple-Men!"

One of the trio says that they each have "25 super-powers." The Multiple-Men honour Superman as a legend "the greatest superhero of all time!" "So each of us is honouring you with a gift!"

They gas him, then disappear. Superman chokes, and becomes groggy. He flees in a daze and tries to fly but suddenly falls, but, however, is captured in mid fall by a medical recovery vehicle.

"An hour later, after finally coming out of his deep, sleep, still groggy and confused..." Superman is first lassoed by one doctor wielding a chain of Kryptonite, which Superman easily breaks. Then another doctor shouts, "Release the witch dog from the mystical planet Tozz!" But Superman is impervious to her magical spells. Finally, he is confronted by a floating plate of Virus-X.

Superman shouts "No--not that! The disease is always fatal!" But Superman is "more super than it is... You would even have your powers under a red sun!"

Alas, the Multiple-Men were using "vaccine gases" that have immunized Superman against his only weaknesses.

And as this chapter concludes, Superman thinks,

"This means I can never die...no force in the universe can harm me! My friends...Lois, Jimmy, Perry, Lana, Batman...all dead ages ago! But I can't die! I'll live forever...and I can never...go...home!"

And there ends the first part. And I'll have to leave my story for now, to resume another time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by India Ink:
Clark: Odd? As odd as the dreams where I'm a newsreader. Or the one where I've got an ant's head. Or where I'm a gorilla.
Once I dreamed I had this wierd virus and I had to keep going forward in time until the end of the universe...
The one I hate is where I'm just an actor on a strange television version of my life.
Have you ever had that dream?

Batman: Doesn't everyone?

Manhunter: I don't.

---

386--"The Home for Old Super-Heroes!" 13 1/2 pages, by Bates, Swan, & unknown.

The cover--another Swanderson achievement--shows a bunch of aging long-john wearers (including Superman) sitting on bauhaus style chairs, in a room with a sign reading "The OLD HEROES' HOME." One of Superman's four compatriots, with antennae sticking out of his bald head, is dressed in Hal Jordan style Green Lantern duds, except his chest emblem is an I super-imposed over an O--

Electroman: I was called Electroman! I can still give off a bolt!
Atom King: I was Atom King, mightiest man on my world!
Green Lantern: I was the last Green Lantern! I was sent here when I grew too old to fight crime!
Superman: And I was Superman on the planet Earth! But like the rest of you, I've outlived my usefulness! No one wants me around any more!

--Since this is the middle of the story, nothing of great moment happens (just as with today's four part arcs, where everything important happens in Superman and then concludes in Action, with AoS and MoS stetching out the plot and marking time). But here, this affords Bates a chance for some comic relief.

Splash--" More than 100,000 years in the future, crime has vanished...wars are no more...even accidents have become rare. So where does a super-hero fit in? Who needs Superman in a peaceful universe? No one, apparently...So he's sent to join other forgotten champions of the glorious past, in 'The Home for Old Super-Heroes!" And Superman is shown whittling logs with his heat vision, fashioning them into busts of his old friends, while other retirees play giant-sized chess or just sleep.

The opening panel shows Earth of 121, 970 "a desolate world, poisoned by the radiation of a nuclear war..." Superman, impervious to the radiation despairs over his lot, while the Time-Trapper looks on and conveniently recaps what happened in last issue's story. Meanwhile Superman flies further on into the future, to the towered city of Metropolis where the people "dwell in the upper levels of their five-mile high skyscrapers, which loom above the poisonous, low-lying atmosphere."

But police in spherical vehicles enclose upon Superman, suspending him in a ring of energy: "You have openly violated prime directive A-7! The use of any super-power in Metropolis is strictly forbidden!" And Superman complies, not wishing to break the law.

Taken into custody at the Control-Complex, his hosts relate how three alien super-champions (two males and one female) settled on Earth thirty thousand years ago and bestowed great gifts upon all of mankind. But a fight broke out between the two male super-guardians over the female, in a war of savage jealousy which lasted two days, before they declared a truce and abandoned Earth. But their "proto-energy" created a poisonous layer of radiation over the entirety of Earth. And thus prime directive A-7 was passed prohibiting all super-human activities.

So Superman wanders off and visits a futuristic "Daily Planet" building where all the news is broadcast all the time on the reporter's menton-scope--a device which allows mental images to be sent and received. Then Superman checks out the ancient newspaper files to see what happened to his friends in the 20th Century: Lois married a movie actor who played Superman (Bob Noran), Jimmy wrote a tell-all book about Superman, while Perry became curator of the Superman Museum after retiring from the Daily Planet.

Following this, Superman sees a flying vehicle about to crash through a building and tries to stop it--there was no need since all vehicles can de-solidify and travel through solid surfaces unharmed. But having violated the prime directive again, Superman is sent off in exile to the old super-folk's home. Where most of the time is spent talking about (and viewing time-records of) the good old days.

But one day the Mayor of Metropolis comes to the home and tries to enlist the aid of these champions in containing a serious threat to the Earth. The oldsters will have none of this, after the way they were treated, but Superman gives a rousing speech that gets them fired up and with his new "Super-Squad" flies off to save the Earth.

The crisis is a chain reaction within a storage silo for Nutanium--"the most powerful explosive element in the universe!" Superman dispatches his super-squad across the galaxy to obtain rare elements which when forged together become a super-strong alloy. The alloy is laid over the top of the silo, while Superman flies around it at great speed forcing the radiation down to the lower levels of the Earth's surface.

Once his job is done, the immortal Superman flies off again further still into the future, with the Time-Trapper always watching him.

But first I should tell you that in the previous issue (386, above), when Superman went to the Daily Planet he also discovered that "1970 was the year reporter Clark Kent mysteriously vanished! Several months later enough conclusive evidence was gathered to prove Kent was secretly Superman!"

now for the conclusion...

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387 "Even a Superman Dies!" 16 pages

--cover--Again by Swanderson, this one shows a robotic medical surgeon operating with lasers on a still Superman, supine upon an operating table--Superman's body looks frail and his supersuit is wrinkly. Two elder doctors look on.

Robot: It's no use...I cannot revive Superman! He is over ONE MILLION YEARS OLD!..In minutes he'll turn to dust!

Doctor: If the healer failed, no one can save him!

--Splash--shows Superman splitting the Earth in two, and thinking "I lived on after my home world, Krypton, exploded...and now I'm still alive when Earth is a lifeless sphere! I've outlived two planets! So I'll perform my last super-deed...and my greatest...I'll start by splitting Earth in two!" With the caption:

More than a million years old, the Man of Steel has lost all those he loved...for they belong to a past so remote it is scarcely remembered! Is he doomed to live on in a strange universe...or will we finally see the day when ..."Even a Superman Dies!"

The conclusion begins with an eerie scene of five transparent spheres tethered together in space--inside each sphere is a frozen spaceman. To defrost the castaway astronauts Superman pulls the spheres through the solar radiance of a rainbow sun. Once thawed on a nearby planetoid, one of the revived astronauts is amazed to see that the "Legendary Superman" has rescued them. Another is surprised at how old the Man of Steel looks--"he was supposed to have been a young man when he vanished back in the 20th century." A third asks what year it is. And Superman answers "801, 970!"

The spacemen are aghast as their ship broke down 5,000 years ago! And then they realize that Superman is 8,000 centuries old. They pester him with questions and he responds, "Questions...Questions!!" Then, thinking that the answers are too painful, Superman flies away, he uses his vision powers to force down another spacecraft onto the planetoid so that it will rescue the five castaways, as he surges forward again through the time barrier. And as he does so his past experiences are recapped, while the Time Trapper looks on.

The future beckons to Superman "to explore it!"

He then emerges in the year 1,001,970, to find the Earth--"after a million years of pollution, war, and untold abuse from Man...used up...just a contaminated globe of waste material..."

Meanwhile two gigantic robotic machines converge upon the lifeless sphere: "Dead Planet 446 is directly ahead!" "Observation confirmed! Now we must carry out our orders and remove the ugly thing!"

The monster sized sanitation engineers proceed to carry the Earth away, while the Lilliputian Superman tries ineffectively to halt them. Brute Strength proving useless, Superman enters one of the gargantuan robots through its eye hole, and inside the mammoth machinery the Metropolis Methuselah cannibalizes parts to create a battery which channels "positive energy" into his own body and out through his super-vision into the robotic machinery. He then repeats the same process on the other mechanical mammoth, charging both with an overflow of positive energy. The positive energy--being that "like charges repel"--repells the two sanitation vehicles millions of miles in opposite directions.

Now Superman embarks upon his own engineering feat. He repeatedly drills into the Earth at superspeed until the globe cracks open into two halves. The molten core has long since cooled, but there at the centre exist vital life-giving elements. Superman fuses these two halves, side by side, together with his super-vision. Then he searches the galaxy for another planet that has just the right atmospere--and inhaling large amounts of the gases he transports this air to his newly made Earth, over and over again until the remade planet has a sufficient atmosphere.

(Meanwhile in space a mysterious spaceship has located the Man of Tomorrow.)

Superman seeds the clouds to produce rain, which makes lakes and oceans. He flies to remote worlds to find exotic plant forms, and a balance of animal life, all suited to the new Earth environment. Then on another planet he locates stone-age humanoids--and one special couple, male and female, living in a cave. He seals the entrance of the cave and then transports it through space and puts it down on the new world.

Hovering in the air far above the first couple, the Last Son of Krypton muses, "Now like Adam and Eve, that primitive couple will start another human race! I've given the Earth a second chance to flourish and prosper! The planet has been reborn!"

Superman flies off in that classic Swan pose--one fist up, one down, one knee up, the other leg trailing--and thinks, "What a strange feeling...there's nothing left for me to do now! I've just performed the ultimate feat of my super-career! All I can look forward to now is an eternity of boredom!"

Meanwhile the mysterious space ship (sorta looks like a purple trowel) spots Superman, and thought balloons inform us "We've searched a million years and countless worlds for this moment! Now is the time for the kill!" and with that a beam is sent through the Metropolis Methuselah and the space craft turns away leaving Superman limp in space.

The caption asks "What is this strange pint-size spacecraft?" and then goes on to tell us, jumping back ten thousand centuries to the year 2000 when Lex Luthor visited a Superman shrine--he's not convinced the Man of Tomorrow died back in 1970--and he clearly didn't have a good dental plan, he's all gums, propped up by a cane, showing bad fashion sense.

Luthor muses that Superman could be anywhere--on another world, in another time--but he'll find the Man of Steel once he himself has died. And the instant Lex dies, his "evil psyche-energy" is sent into the killer drone (the purple space-craft). Then the drone sets out on its odyssey in search of Superman, but along the way, over the centuries, it absorbs other "evil psyche energy" from dying villains on other planets--increasing its malevolent power. Until the level of evil energy has become lethal even to an immortal Superman.

We return to the barely living Man of Steel in space. At that moment the master healer, a robotic medic traversing the spaceways, comes upon the mortally wounded humanoid and transports him to the nearest space station--and we see virtually the same scene as on the cover (dialogue and all). But just as hope fades--

Robot: At last...You nearly died...but I saved your life!
Superman: What! Why did you do a fool thing like that? I'm over a million years old...I've outlived everything and everybody I cared for! I wanted to die!

Then in a fury Superman flies off from the space station as the master healer shouts a warning against the dreaded Magnor Comet which is headed that way--"it will disintegrate everything in its path...even you!"

"That'll suit me fine!" thinks Superman, but the killer drone is on his tail, aiming to strike and kill. Just then the Magnor Comet does pass by destroying not Superman but the killer drone. The Man of Tomorrow is pulled along in the Comet's wake, reaching greater velocities than he has ever known before, crashing through the Time Barrier, until "the End of Time!" And Superman blacks out.

"For some time there is only darkness and oblivion... then the blackness lifts..." And from a subjective point of view shot we see Lara reaching out her arms above us, and Jor-El behind her. We see Superman's thought balloon but not him as he recognizes his biological parents and wonders if he's died and is now "meeting them in the next world."

But as we see in the next panel, when he tries to speak, other words than what he intended come out, "Me don't want to take nap, mommy! Me want to play with Krypto!" and we see the baby Kal-El in his mother's arms with Jor-El carrying the little pup, Krypto.

[>choke< I still find this whole scene very touching...]

Kal-El in his thoughts realizes that he is somehow reliving his life "and I can't even speak a word I didn't speak the first time!"

And so Kal-El hops from moment to moment of his existence, aware of his own experiences yet unable to act in them--as Superboy in Smallville, as Clark Kent asking Perry White for a job at the Daily Planet--until he finds himself in the Fortress of Solitude on January 12, 1970, the very day he went off into the future never to return. But the bubble has already left (Superman has already left in the time bubble, and yet he is here now in the Fortress)--"But how?"

And Superman theorizes..."Many scientists believe that time curves back on itself... that somewhere the past and future meet. Well I've just proved it! I traveled so far into the future, I reached my own past! And I got a second chance, just as I gave Earth a second chance in the future!"

President of the US (who was not Nixon)
A masked wrestler
A criminal
A reporter from a great metropolitan newspaper.

Unlike you I never read the first issue.

I visited at collectibles fair today in Sydney and saw some old Actions including the ones we have been discussing.

Do you remember a two parter in which aliens eliminated evil from the Earth leaving Superman with nothing to do. Swan, Abel and ?

And an imaginary two parter where the roles of Superman and Luthor were reversed. Lex-El was sent to Earth and Clark Kent was a gangster. Bates, Swan & Giodarno.

The second story you mention was one (if not the last) imaginary tale written for Superman and was typical for that type of tale (twists and turns, people dying, Jor-el coming to Earth with his son and being pretty much evil, etc.)

But while we're throwing out queries, let me add another one, if you can stand it, pertaining to the "transition period."

I had always thought, when they were being published, that the Super-Sons were an invention of Earth B, or more rightly the Boltinoff multiverse--

Before I go on I guess I have to explain that last bit. In the various Murray Botinoff edited books (including World's Finest, Brave & Bold, Superboy (& the Legion) among others) there were some fairly hair-brained stories that didn't fit into any known continuity of Earth 1 or 2--and so these were dubbed Earth B by fans. But actually there's a multiplicity of continuity in the Boltinoff realm. In B&B Batman would team with various heroes who didn't resemble themselves or any official continuity, and sometimes these various tales are self-contradictory--it seems like we need more than one Earth just for them. Then there's the possible near-future timeline of the Super-Sons, and the distant future timeline of the Legion. And there's a savage version of Superboy, in which Kal-El actually ended up in the jungle rather than Smallville, and had adventures akin to the Jungle Tales of Tarzan or something out of the Jungle Book. So rightly there wasn't just a Boltinoff Earth B, but an entire multiverse--

Yet, years later I obtained Action nos. 391 & 392--which were published in 1970--and these feature the Super-Sons, but Mort Weisinger is still editor (and the art is by Andru/Esposito--I'd guess the writer was Dorfman, whereas Bob Haney wrote the later Super-Son tales in WF). The next issue, # 193 (October, 1970) is edited by Boltinoff with the Swanderson team providing the interior art for the first time (although they had long been the cover artists).

Since we're in the seventies, can somebody give me some info and commentary on some Lois and Clark relationship stories of the seventies. This was where Clark proposed to Lois, when she was suffering from some sort of alien space virus. He asked her to marry me, and she said "yes" if he could tell her that Clark Kent was Superman.

Can somebody tell me what issues those were and how exactly (in what issues) the relationhip had built up to that point.

What issues of Superman dealt with the aftermath of that proposal? Was it Superman 317?

I swear as corny as it was, I prefer it to the post-Crisis "real" proposal.

You know, somebody should take Superman issues 296-297 and those proposal issues, and make a second Lois and Clark trade paperback.

What do you guys think?

I grew up with Superman from about '68 to '74, and this brought back a flood or memories.

I've got some catching up to do, so without further ado:

India Ink -

your list of Swanderson stories was superb! I would make just 2 additions-

"Attack of the Micro-Murderer" by Bates (Action 403) - Superman fights for his life against an alien virus.

"The Island that Invaded the Earth" by Wein (Superman 251) - Superman must figure out why a newly formed island in the South Pacific is causing the Earth's weather to go haywire.

Also - your dead on about the inker on the Action 3-parter, it was George Roussos.

As far as the Super-Sons go, I think the earliest story involving the World's Finest offspring would be "The Sons of Batman and Superman" found in World's Finest 154 (Dec.'65). Technically, I don't think this earlier version fit in with the later stories as their wives are clearly identified here as Kathy Kane and Lois Lane.

Old Guy and Conkom -

It's funny but all of the issues you talked about are from right around the same neighborhood in Action Comics.

- the Virus X serial had to be the longest of the Weisinger era, lasting 5 whole issues from Action 362 to 366 (April to August '68), and it was indeed authored by Leo Dorfman.

- That was followed shortly by the 2-part "Unemployed Superman"/"Superman's Greatest Blunder" you reference. This was in Action 368 and 369 (Oct and Nov '68), and was written by Otto Binder, with art by Swan and Abel.

- The Superman with amnesia bit came soon after, in Action 371, 372, 374, and 375 (373 being a reprint collection, I think), from January to April '69. It was scripted by Otto Binder, with art by Swan and Abel. Superman takes on the personalities of the president, a masked wrestler, and a thief before finally regaining his memory.

- Then, we jump a little bit to issues 383 and 384 (Dec.'69 and Jan.'70) to find the 2-part "The Killer Costume"/"The Forbidden Costume" with Superman fighting off the 2 costumes!

JamesS-

I know exactly the story you're referencing! In Superman 314, Clark proposes to Lois, but she puts him on the spot and asks him to reveal his identity, which of course he refuses to do! Marty Pasko developed this Lois/Clark romance, no doubt inspired by the earlier Bates/Maggin dalliance, starting with his stint on issue 305 up to the climactic 4-parter which ends in 314.

Whew!

Now after catching my breath, I'd like to add my 2 cents to this Superman in the 70s discussion.

I love the "Big Change" Superman stories circa 1970-71 when new creative teams (with the lone hold-over being Curt Swan) breathed new life into the character.

I know many of you mention the "Sandman Saga" as a milestone (and rightly so), but let's not forget the impact that the legendary Jack Kirby made right around the same time over in Jimmy Olsen (133-148).

The sinister Morgan Edge clone, Intergang, the Project, the Evil Factory, the Newsboy Legion, the Whiz Wagon - even now I'm blown away by these stories!

I also have a soft spot for the Schwartz-edited run on World's Finest around the same time (198-214). This was a precursor to the later DC Comics Presents, with Superman teaming up with different characters.

The epic "Race Across the Universe" with the Flash, a Superman/Green Lantern clash (orchestrated by Felix Faust), and one of my favorite Superman/Batman stories "A Matter of Light and Death", where they team up against Dr. Light, are some of the highlights of this run. Once again, I see this as another turning point for the character as Schwartz begins to involve him with the rest of the DC universe, a big departure from the Weisinger era.

Anyway, let the discussion continue - I love this thread!

What a fun thread!!!

I have an extensive collection of Superman and Action Comics going back to the early 60's... This thread has got me going back and re-reading read some of those old stories...

My, my what a different world...

They are pure fun and what Super-hero comics were all about...

You guy's are some great fan's!!!

Thanks for the memories!!!

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself... A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself..." D.H. Lawrence

Some day I will list all of those stories, but since that's quite a big project, it'll have to wait for a while.

I guess the Super-Sons concept evolved over time. In Action 391-92, Superman's wife has blonde hair. Unless this is a colorist's error, that would suggest he married someone other than Lois or Lana (someone more like Lyla Lerol?).

I would welcome any comments from you or others on the early 70s Jimmy, Lois, Supergirl (in Adventure), and WF stories. Whereas I have a good amount of the Superman & Action stuff from the early seventies, my collection of these others is sporadic at best. From about 74 onward (into the eighties) I was pretty much a Superman completist, getting every comic that had anything to do with him. But before '74 (before I was earning money as a paperboy), I had to be more selective. While I've managed over the years to find some of these treasures, I'm far away from getting a comprehensive collection together.

And so, I wouldn't presume to comment on those other titles.

I kinda like silly stories, and whenever Robert Kanigher writes about women he seems to get into a lot of silliness.

From the few 70s LL comics that I've acquired, I know that I would like them--any of them--despite the bad inking.

Of course sixties Lois was perfect--by Schaffenberger, and I would guess scripted by Otto Binder and Leo Dorfman. If there isn't an archive soon, I may have to start putting together a SGFLL collection.

As a kid in the sixties I had to spread my money thin, to get a taste of everything--so I only bought a few issues of LL, but I loved them.

I remember one where Lois and Lana go into the bottle city of Kandor. They look so cute in those Kandorian mini-skirts.

And then there was another one--one that gave me nightmares--where Lois took the place of this old dead banana republic dictator woman.

Sixties LL comics were like stories of Veronica and Betty but in their twenties--but was Lois the Betty and Lana the Ronnie, or the other way around?

In issue 111, "The Dark Side of the Justice League" by Kanigher, Roth, and Colletta, there is an appearance by Simyan and Mokkari, 2 of Darkseid's followers who run the "Evil Factory", introduced just a couple of months earlier by Kirby in Jimmy Olsen. In this story, they create miniature clones out of the entire Justice League!

Issue 115, "My Death - By Lois Lane", by the same creative team, features an appearance by the enigmatic Black Racer, another Kirby creation fresh from his first appearance in New Gods.

In issue 116, "Hall of 1000 Mirrors", again by Kanigher/Roth/Colletta, Darkseid himself appears, in a story featuring DeSaad and his twisted amusement park "Happyland", a Kirby creation that had appeared in Forever People.

In issue 118, the same team brings us "Edge of Darkness", where it is revealed that Morgan Edge, the head of Galaxy Broadcasting introduced by Kirby in Jimmy Olsen about a year earlier, is actually an evil clone created by the Evil Factory! The real Morgan Edge, which has been held captive all this time, escapes his prison.

This story-line continues in issue 119, with the evil clone still on the trail of the real Morgan Edge in the story "Inside the Outsiders"

Finally, the loose ends are resolved in Jimmy Olsen 152, by another creative team comprised of E. Nelson Bridwell, Steve Skeates, Mike Sekowsky, and Bob Oskner, in a story entitled "The Double-Edged Sword".

The "real" Morgan Edge first shows up as a shadowy figure in Superman 241 - "The Shape of Fear", the penultimate chapter of the Sandman Saga, a Denny O'Neil/Swanderson story. He also showed up briefly in Superman 244's "Electronic Ghost of Metropolis", by the same team.

It seems like Superman in the early '70s was a patchwork of multiple personalities, due to having 4 editors in 5 different magazines.

For example, during 1971, the Sandman Saga was entirely confined to Superman's own magazine, with nary a reference to it in Action Comics, where the Man of Steel was as powerful as ever. Kirby was doing his own thing over in Jimmy Olsen, even including kryptonite in the "Evil Factory" story, months after it had been transformed to iron over in Superman.

This is so sad. His work was of stunning beauty.

The first time I encountered his art was in that Kryp and Tonn story (Tales of Krypton) in the back of Superman--during the Sandman Saga.

And as thoughts tumble together, it occurs to me that a collected volume of those Tales of Krypton would be a fine idea (with a fold-out of the Krypton map).

And India, if you're listening, way early on in this thread, you asked about the beef against Terra-Man. I find TerraMan to be fairly ludicrous because he's just a cowboy on Pegasus. The most menacing thing about him is the fact that he probably listens to country-western music.

(And it should be noted that despite any complaining I do about Silver Age stories, I seem to read them whenever I can.)

------------------
Homer: My ears are burning...

Marge: Oh Homer, we weren't even talking about you.

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

Terra Man I loved for a lot of reasons--as I think I already said--his origin (at least for the times) was quite novel and characters are usually only as good as their origin stories. Read the Dillin/Adams/Bates story and then get back to me.

Here's another question: How did the pre-crisis Superman meet Mongul?

------------------
Homer: My ears are burning...

Marge: Oh Homer, we weren't even talking about you.

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

New question: In Whatever Happened to The Man of Tomorrow one of the villains that come after Supes is a guy named "Krytonite Man." What is the deal with that guy? I hadn't heard of him prior to reading that story.

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"Ladies and gentlemen, er, we've just lost the
picture, but, uh, what we've seen speaks for itself. The Corvair spacecraft has been taken over -- "conquered," if you will
-- by a master race of giant space ants. It's difficult to tell from
this vantage point whether they will consume the captive earthmen or
merely enslave them. One thing is for certain, there is no stopping
them; the ants will soon be here. [Suddenly genial] And I, for one, welcome our new
insect overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted TV
personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their
underground sugar caves."

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"All right, nobody move! I've got a Dragon here and I'm not afraid to use it! I'm a DONKEY ON THE EDGE!"

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

That's how I feel about Terra Man--I wouldn't want to overblow his merits, but for situational plots he was better than most. And it was the seventies--the clothes were wierd and tasteless.

The way I see it, through my unscientific survey, Superman had/has five types of villains:
1) The megalomaniac out to conquer the world or the universe--eg. Luthor, Brainiac, Ultra-Humanite, Graax, Mongul,...
2) The monster, a pathetic creation of some sort with great power--eg. Bizarro, the Galactic Golem, Doomsday, the sand creature, Solomon Grundy, Metallo...
3) The pest, who usually doesn't present a real threat but just a lot of wierdness--eg. Mr. Mxyzptlk, Ambush Bug, and sort of Bizarro, The Prankster, and Toyman.
4) The gansters--essentially crooks in plain clothes who don't do much but the rather routine ganster type stuff--harassing citizens, robbing banks--eg. most of the villains on the Adventures of Superman TV show or the members of Intergang and the One Hundred.
5) The minor league costumed villain--eg. Terra Man, Black Rock, The Atomic Skull, Metallo (sort of)...

When Schwartz came along the first four were well represented but not the fifth--except maybe in World's Finest stories where the costumed villains presented a challenge to Batman and Robin.

Schwartz had his writers introduce a lot of these costumed villains--and most didn't take off, but a few like Terra Man did. The virtue of these villains over three of the other four is in their minor league status. They aren't wierd or monstrous, but neither are they out for major conquest. When Superman takes on majorly powerful monsters, pests, and megalomaniacs the image of Superman as TOO powerful is put before the readership. But if we see him in a battle of wits with fairly ordinary costumed villains we forget about Superman's power level. Thus these minor league villains helped to downplay the just too powerful image of Superman.

The first story, "To Live in Peace--Nevermore!" (Paul Levitz writer, Dick Dillin & Dick Giordano artists) has the Legion intervene against Superman's attempts to stop Nyrvn making war. The LSH (Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, Dawnstar, and Sun Boy) tell Superman that the Nyrvn made war for one thousand years with their interplanetary neighbours, but when the entire galaxy was attacked by an enemy from beyond an alliance was formed with Nyrvn and our galaxy won the war bringing about the age of peace in which the LSH were formed. Had Nyrvn not made war for a thousand years, they would not have developed the level of weaponry that enabled our galaxy to defeat the enemy from beyond.

Following this encounter with the Legion, Jonathan Ross is kidnapped by the Nyrvnians, and Pete Ross comes to Clark (revealing his secret knowledge of Superman's true identity) demanding that he rescue Jonathan. Jon meanwhile expects his friend Superman (in a previous story the little boy found out Superman's true identity and formed a friendship with the Man of Steel) to arrive at any moment and save him, but the Legion appear and inform him that his destiny is to become a great Nyrvnian warrior. Superman does make an attempt to save his young friend, but is defeated by the stellar beams of the Nyrvnian warships.

And so the Man of Steel surrenders to destiny, but he does change history slightly by using his robots and advanced technology to create a full-scale computer war game that continually diverts and challenges Nyrvn while not threatening any other planets.

Pete Ross aint happy. And at the end of the story (in one of those good Dillin close-ups) he says to his lifelong friend, "By God, I swear you'll pay!"

Which leads into "Judge, Jury...and no Justice!" (by the same creative team, and reprinted in Superman in the Seventies). A story that has Ross suddenly accumulating enough wealth to become a megalomaniacal genius bent on the absolute destruction of Superman, both mentally and physically, as Ross puts his mind inside a time kidnapped Superboy, abducts Superman's friend (all except Clark), uses krytonite chains (though being in Superboy's body), and so on.

In these two stories Levitz asks us as readers to make several leaps--and I don't want to leap.

I don't accept that Superman would so easily give up on Nyrvn or Jon Ross. That's not the Superman we knew back then. Nor would he let down Pete Ross. Superman would give up his life for his friend sooner than let Jon grow up without his parents.

The Legion are treated as mere toys to drive the plot along. In one fell swoop Levitz changes twenty years of continuity (undermining the whole Clark/Pete relationship). And it's all done more for shock value than for deeply motivated characterization.

Between issues 13 & 14, Pete manages to remake himself into a powerful super-villain capable of transporting the Boy of Steel through time, able to get his hands on Green K chains (hey wasn't all that Kryptonite turned to iron--I guess this stuff came from outer space), puts Superman's friends into a floating pod vehicle, does a handy dandy mind transfer. You'd almost think Pete spent his spare time when not helping out Superboy dreaming up schemes of how he could get revenge on his old pal if he ever felt the need to get revenge on his old pal.

And there are so many holes in the plot, I find it hard to believe Levitz put much thought into it.

But in his defense he did respond to readers concerns over Jon's kidnapping (DCCP 13) in the lettercol of DCCP 18. He goes on at great length, but here's some of what he wrote:

...As for my opinions, please don't confuse them with those of the characters. I neither condone nor condemn what any of them have done, and the same goes for the end result. Without debating minor points like Pete's reaction to the kidnapping, I think I did show that Superman's ultimate goal was the protection of Jon Ross. He failed in fulfilling his task completely because even with all the power, inclination, intelligence, and luck in the universe--you can't win all the time. It's all the more painful a hurt when you lose one so important to you...

For the record, the Comics Code read #13 in its entirety, prior to granting their seal of approval. I assume from this that they too felt that Superman's attitudes represented the positive outlook on family life they demand, and the desire for justice. But what would just punishment have been? The imprisonment of the entire world of Nyrvn? And in the end, what profit accrued to Nyrvn--or anyone on it? Unless you want to consider the fact that it prompted Superman to end their wars.

Finally let me just say that the story isn't over yet. Both editor Julie and I had a sequel in mind even before publication, and your letters have persuaded us that it's more than desirable, almost obligatory. I haven't plotted the story yet, so I can't say whether Jon will come home to Earth, or Superman and Pete be reconciled. I do know that if it's a good story, it'll make at least some of you reconsider your judgements.

silver age SATANUS is the definative SATANUS

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

The Proposal was in issue Superman 314, a four parter by Marty Pasko and Swan...

Also a great three parter tale featuring a soul-searching Superman ! Superman 317-319 ! Supergirl lies to Superman in order to save Kal from... himself ??!! Great Stuff !
Covers by Neal Adams. Who said they were shallow ? Man...

Action Comics 471-473 anyone ?
All out battle with Faora and General Zod !!

Action 480-483..
AMAZO ! Nuff Said !!

Superman 296-299 are just awesome !
Suprised that many of you remembers !
Superman losing his powers...
Intergang....
Bob Oskner.... ))

Not to mention the epic Warworld, Mongul, Supergirl, Spectre stories from DC Comics Presents..

And how about those NEAL ADAMS, GARCIA LOPEZ and ROSS ANDRU covers !! Damn !! I'll take those covers ANYTIME over the modern age covers we have today !

quote:

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Originally posted by India Ink:
continuing...

Tales of the Fortress was one of many short-lived back-up series in Action--and it featured Superman and Supergirl in the Fortress of Solitude, turning up some mysterious artifact or another. I liked the fact that in these tales the Fortress seemed to be fully as much Supergirl's as it was Superman's (she didn't take second place) and Superman treated her with all the respect and affection he would show to his equal (regardless of her power fluctuations over in Adventure Comics). Here we get to see the Maid of Steel in her latest fashion (a mod mini-dress) with a cute shortish coiffure.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Progenitor:
now i know the answer but can anyone tell me what the story was with the first appearance of the sand superman, we all know its from the nuclear explosion deal but can anyone tell me one of the main supporting characters(helped superman, the story ran for a few months, like i think 9 so the supporting character isnt like jimmy or lois, but more a character of the moment, and how was the story resolved?
lets see who's really out there

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I'm not quite sure what you're asking for here. But in terms of the resolution, in the last three issues of the storyline, it was I Ching who assisted Superman and the sand creature--although I have this funny hope that DC will soon collect the whole thing in a trade paperback and I don't want to go into details for fear of spoiling the ending!

I Ching of course was the blind Chinese gentleman and martial arts master who mentored Diana Prince (Wonder Woman without her powers wearing predominantly white mod clothing). Diana appears in these stories, but mainly as a third party, while Ching uses his mystic knowledge to aid the Men of Steel and Sand.

as for 317 to 319, wasnt that the stroy where superman believed that he should attend to matters on earth and let other heroes tend to the universe
so supergirl concocked some story where he and she were genetic mutatations
she ends up going into space to help battle an alien race, superman uses his supervision and sees she's in trouble, goes to help and he ends up blind for a duratation in the comic, supergirl tells superman of the hoax and blah blah, and everything is resolved

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

I really believed that they were making a major change to the continuity. Everything I believed to be true about Superman was wrong!

I loved that story , i still reread all the time

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

quote:

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Originally posted by India Ink:
On the Mongul front: Mongul was a villain created by Jim Starlin... The stories continued from issue to issue in DCCP, in what you might call an arc--written and illustrated by Starlin (sorry I don't have the issue numbers at hand, but one of those comics did indeed feature the preview of "The New Teen Titans" by Wolfman and Perez). During this extended Starlin run Superman crossed paths with The Spectre, Green Lantern, and Martian Manhunter.

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I LOVE the Seventies Superman.... the last few years I've been filling in holes I have in the 1972 to 1979 range of all the titles. Just today I picked up Action #'s 438 and 439 (mostly for the Atom backups).

The Mongul story arc ran from DCCP #'s 27-29, featuring Martian Manhunter, Supergirl, and the Spectre, respectively (GL was in #26, another Starlin issue, but I don't think it was connected to the Mongul story, but, it's been a whiile since I pulled it out of the pressurized comic vault... could be wrong about this...).

Didn't Neal Adams do the cover to Action #485, a tribute to the cover of Superman #233? Another poster thought some of the 1977 Superman (#'s 317-319? Memory fading fast... ) covers were his last.

One of my favorite later discoveries was the Best of DC Digest that collected most of the World of Krypton backup stories. Sure, they may lack the 'punch' some look for in storytelling, but an insight to the Pre-Crisis world.

The Action 477-478 and 480-483 issues were my first, (along with #419, a gift from afriend down the road from this then-impressionable 8 year old) and most fondly remembered issues from that era. Why?

One word: SUPERMOBILE!

Cass

i love that story, and also i got the got the supermobile toy,
i loved amazo in that story

i also loved the KRYPTONOID story, too cool

------------------
Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES
http://racerxband.com/

The Sandman Saga was awesome--the early seventies overall were revolutionary times--and a lot of people might say that what followed was not up to that level. But I have to say MY Superman was really the one you're talking about. The Oksner inked Superman. The Superman of Maggin, Bates, and Pasko. The Schwartz and Swan Superman.

There was something about that contained world they all created. The Superman from 71-73 was in a state of becoming. But the 74-79 Superman had achieved a certain level--a level that was constantly maintained through those years. Those stories are like comfort food for my soul.

By doing a simple google search on the name Elliot S! Maggin, I found these cool sites.

For the fortress, try:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004008/http://theages.superman.ws/

For "starwinds howl" itself, try:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004008/http://www.starwinds-howl.com/

or:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004008/http://www.superboy-lives.com/starwinds.php

or for the general superboy homepage, try:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004008/http://www.superboy-lives.com/

for the Maggin homepage, try:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004008/http://www.maggin.com/

and for the Amazing World of DC Comics, try:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004008/http://yoner.com/awodcc

This is my favorite recurring thread, and I'm glad to see that Superman Through the Ages is back on line.

The early seventies ones, the ones with the Sandman Saga, are rather tan and there's a little tearing around the staples. Also there's a bit of tattering at the edges of some covers. Anything with black ink on the covers usually ended up with my thumb print somewhere. And 100 page Super-Spectaculars did very badly--worse yet I often tried to tape them. There was an issue of Superman (245 or somewhere around there I think) which was a Super-Spec and it had lots of black ink on the cover (Swan and Anderson did that wrap-around cover--there was a Super Chief reprint in there).

Then I had the brilliant idea of subscribing to DC comics. Don't get me wrong--it was a great thrill when I heard the mailbox open and I'd hear that familiar thud, go racing down the stairs to pick up all my comics. But they were mailed folded in brown wrappers (which didn't cover the book completely) and sometimes the wrapper glue stuck to the comic.

But from the late seventies on (by then I had stopped subscribing) those books are in good shape, not very tan. Still several moves and keeping them in a basement apartment for some years has not been kind to my collection.

By Overstreet Pricing Guide standards, it sounds to me like your collection is "fair" to "very good." For a refresher on the criteria and levels, click here.

From everthing I've read, polybags are fine and won't degrade the paper unless you keep them in the same bag over 2 years.

Quick Village Idiot story: From early on in my collecting career, I took steps to keep my collection as mint as possible, trying to avoid comics with stress marks along the spine, etc. I knew I needed to bag my circa 1982 collection somehow, so I took some Glad cellophane bags and bagged each one. I figured I needed to seal them somehow, so I took the household iron and melted the slack on each bag, figuring a hermetic seal would keep them preserved prefectly, and left them this way for YEARS (at least a decade). Well, as you probably know, Glad bags are made out of the same polycellephane as comic bags today, and they and the comics degraded without my even realizing it. When about four years ago, I took the comics out of their sealed bags and was shocked to find they were tanned. The bags all had a yellow cast to them. Live and learn.

I refer to all of my post-crisis issues as "the cannon": I only buy the best near mint issues I can find and keep them in long boxes. Some debate exists as to whether commics should be kept in rows or stacked: rows are figured to be hard on the corners, while it has been suggested that stacking leads to spine rolling. (Actually, I have no idea what REALLY causes spine rolling: I have an issue from last month whose spine is beginning to roll. Maybe it's heat. (?)) The Library on Congress stacks documents it's trying to preserve, but I think keeping them in rows in acid-free long boxes is probably best.

My pre-crisis books are all "very good" to "fine." I bought some issues of Action from this era the other day to fill in a gap, and they were generally in the same condition. Maybe you remember the storyline I picked up: Satanus and his wife split Superman in half, and both Supermen half to cope with having different powers. Mostly a Wolfman story, and it's pretty cool. These comics are probably not worth that much in the long run because of their condition, but it did give me enjoyment to read them.

It probably wouldn't kill you to catalog your collection at a database like wizardworld.com. Their website is pretty nifty, letting you set up an account for free that gives you the current market value of each item in your collection, and totals it, etc. It's painful, but you gotta be honest when grading the book.

I know that story where Supergirl lies to Kal-el and they go off into space. They find and rescue a crystaline alien culture I believe, and Superman gives Supergirl one of the most moving speeches I have ever read in a comic book from a fictional character, at the very end of the story. Of course, he also goes blind during the course of the story. Musn't forget.

That was a brilliant story, and Supergirl was wearing my favourite outfit for her.

Sigh... you guys should not be out promoting boardwide uncontrollable nostalgia in this way.

Thanks!

quote:

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Originally posted by India Ink:

Robot: At last...You nearly died...but I saved your life!
Superman: What! Why did you do a fool thing like that? I'm over a million years old...I've outlived everything and everybody I cared for! I wanted to die!

Then in a fury Superman flies off from the space station as the master healer shouts a warning against the dreaded Magnor Comet which is headed that way--"it will disintegrate everything in its path...even you!"

"That'll suit me fine!" thinks Superman, but the killer drone is on his tail, aiming to strike and kill. Just then the Magnor Comet does pass by destroying not Superman but the killer drone. The Man of Tomorrow is pulled along in the Comet's wake, reaching greater velocities than he has ever known before, crashing through the Time Barrier, until "the End of Time!" And Superman blacks out.

"For some time there is only darkness and oblivion... then the blackness lifts..." And from a subjective point of view shot we see Lara reaching out her arms above us, and Jor-El behind her. We see Superman's thought balloon but not him as he recognizes his biological parents and wonders if he's died and is now "meeting them in the next world."

But as we see in the next panel, when he tries to speak, other words than what he intended come out, "Me don't want to take nap, mommy! Me want to play with Krypto!" and we see the baby Kal-El in his mother's arms with Jor-El carrying the little pup, Krypto.

[>choke< I still find this whole scene very touching...]

Kal-El in his thoughts realizes that he is somehow reliving his life "and I can't even speak a word I didn't speak the first time!"

And so Kal-El hops from moment to moment of his existence, aware of his own experiences yet unable to act in them--as Superboy in Smallville, as Clark Kent asking Perry White for a job at the Daily Planet--until he finds himself in the Fortress of Solitude on January 12, 1970, the very day he went off into the future never to return. But the bubble has already left (Superman has already left in the time bubble, and yet he is here now in the Fortress)--"But how?"

And Superman theorizes..."Many scientists believe that time curves back on itself... that somewhere the past and future meet. Well I've just proved it! I traveled so far into the future, I reached my own past! And I got a second chance, just as I gave Earth a second chance in the future!"

The End

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It strikes me that this epic time-travelling 3 parter (Action Comics Nos. 385-387 Feb.-Apr., 1970) was the last great saga of the Weisinger era. The story brought that Superman to a conclusion and inaugurated a new (70s) Superman. Had such a story been done in the last sixteen years it would be viewed as a milestone of major consequence--if not a "Crisis" then at least a "Zero Hour," "Return to Krypton," or "Our Worlds at War." Because of the ending.

Cary Bates had to know that Weisinger was soon retiring--perhaps Bates wanted to write one last great adventure about THAT Man of Tomorrow, before new editors took over the legacy with who knew what possible changes.

And the ending leaves us with a temporal paradox--where 60s Superman has departed for his fate in the farflung future, 70s Superman remains behind.

70s Superman is 60s Superman to the extent that he shares some of the Weisinger legacy. But as the 70s unfolded we would see that editors and writers screened out some parts of the legend, tweaked or modified other parts, and then expanded on those aspects that interested them most.

In this task of myth-making there is one individual who is easily overlooked, but should never be discounted. That person is ENB.

But it is as editor of many Giants and Super-Spectaculars--including most of the Superman family titles--that we should consider the Big E. here.

We tend not to think about reprints when considering a particular era. It's as if they don't exist. Only the "new" material counts. Yet when I was a kid I made no distinction between what was "old" and what was "new." It was all new to me.

What's more, I would gladly buy the reprints (sometimes they were better than the original material)--in the 60s you could get 80 pages for a quarter as compares with 32 regular pages for 12 cents; in the earlier 70s you could get 100 pages for four bits as compares with 32 regular pages for two dimes. The Giants and Super-Specs appeared on the same stands in amongst the regular size books. There was no "wall" between reprints and regular comics as there seems to be today. Today, reprints are packaged in high end books, and even when a facsimile 80 or 100 pager appears it's packaged to look different from the regular comics.

In the early sixties, when the Giants first appeared, they were Annuals and numbered as such. Then they were 80 page Giants and numbered as such (G-1, G-2, G-3, ...), but soon enough they became part of the regular run of a title--Superman 196 was a regular size issue, 197 (G-36) was 80 pages, 198 went back to regular size. Same deal with the Super-Specs--they started out with their own numbering as a separate run (DC-1, DC-2, DC-3), but soon became part of the run of each title--Superman 244 is a regular 48 pager, 245 is 100 pages (all reprints), 246 is back to a regular 48 pages.

Did I say 48 pages???

Yup. In 1971 and 1972, DC was printing all their regular books in a 48 page size (52 pages if you count the covers). The books were filled out by putting 12-16 pages of reprint material in them.

As he had been responsible for the Giants and Super-Specs (for the Superman family, but increasingly for other titles as well), Bridwell had the duties thrust upon him of finding reprint stories that would fill out those 48 pagers.

And while the Giants of old mainly stuck with 50s and 60s stories, in the early seventies readers were treated to a lot of rare tales from the 40s and even the 30s.

In the Superman title itself, Bridwell mainly selected Superman stories from either 1940-47 or 1958-66. While with the remaining family titles, tales of family members were mostly selected from the 60s or late 50s.

Then with the April-May, 1974, issue (No. 164), Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen, was now Superman Family--a 100 page book (including covers and ads) that usually spotlighted one family member in the lead all-new story, but filled the rest of its pages with reprint tales selected by Bridwell (although Murray Boltinoff and Joe Orlando shared the official editing chair).

Eventually the size of Superman Family shrank, and then with the March-April, 1977, issue (No. 182) it became a Dollar Comic featuring all-new material. But during that period of reprints, Bridwell was able to choose the stories he wanted--those that best exemplified the Superman world.

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quote:

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Originally posted by KEV-EL:
garithebari, Check out the Sandman Saga, Circa 1971... It ran from Superman 233 through 242...

It was probably one of the best Superman stories EVER written in any era...

For more info on that GREAT story check this site:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004008/http://theages.superman.ws/History/SandSaga.php

I think you'll really like it!!!

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For the record, this page has moved to

http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004008/http://theages.superman.ws/History/SandSaga.php

For me, one of the main concerns in the Saga is what I call "Sad Superman." Throughout the Saga there's a building sadness surrounding Superman. This is the martyred Man of Steel, the suffering Son of Krypton, who sacrifices all of his being for the people, for the world, but when the chips are down--when he's powerless and at the end of his tether, the world turns on him, denounces him, strikes back at him--as if all his past sacrifices were worthless.

You get the sense of Sad Superman even in popular songs like "Superman (It aint Easy)" by Five For Fighting or "Superman's Song" by The Crashtest Dummies.

And no one draws Sad Superman better than Curt Swan. Other artists drew the sadness in the mouth (Neal Adams draws the eyes shut and the mouth open and twisted in torment), but Swan drew it in those open soulful eyes.

The Sad Man of Steel is all over the place in the early 70s. He's there in Action 400, mourning over the fate of his adopted son; he's on the cover of Justice League of America No. 86, December, 1970 (illustrated by Adams), crying for a starving world.

But it's Dennis O'Neil who milks the pathos for all it's worth in the Saga. There the martyrdom of the Man of Tomorrow would kick into high gear with issue 140 (check the link for details). Mocked and jeered as "Superman Fails" (Neal Adams' cover for that issue plays the sentiment for all it's worth), by the end of the story our Kal-El lays defenseless (and powerless) as thugs attack him, one of them bruising the suffering hero's forehead with the butt-end of his gun. The resulting contusion would have important consequences in the next couple of issues as the Saga came to its ultimate conclusion.

But the issue just before 140--Superman 139, June-July, 1971--is a Giant (G-84). By this time Giants were 64 pages for 25c--and of course ENB is the credited editor in the indicia (in that issue's lettercolumn the indication is that Bridwell is now editing almost all the Giants except the war books, edited by Joe Kubert, and some DC Specials).

Leading off the collection of three great contests is a Hercules two-parter--"Hercules in the 20th Century!" & "Superman's Battle with Hercules," from Action Comics 267 & 268, Aug. & Sept., 1960, by artist Wayne Boring and an uncredited writer.

Now this is a fun story.

I love how it begins with Lex Luthor in yet another stunt to break out of prison. These breakouts were superb as he, like McGiver, uses his ingenuity to cobble together some device from ordinary objects in a bid for freedom. In this instance, an aspirin, a shaving mirror, and a few odds and ends are reconfigured into a time-travel device with which Luthor brings the legendary Hercules forward through time and into the scientific mastermind's prison cell.

Soon enough, Lex dupes "Herc the Jerk" into breaking them out of prison and enlists the legendary marvel as his muscleman on a crime spree. Nevertheless, Hercules tumbles to the deception and helps the Man of Steel capture Luthor.

As Clark Kent, Superman gets Hercules a job at the Planet posing as Roget Tate, photographer, where the hero of twelve labours falls for the divine Lois Lane. Declaring his love for the girl reporter, Herc's attentions are spurned by Miss Lane as she cares only for one man, the mighty Man of Steel.

Roger Tate/Hercules wrangles an assignment to Athens, Greece, where he makes a bee-line for the secret location of the Oracle of Olympus. And with the Oracle's aid, the antique Argonaut enters the realm of the Olympian gods. At his request, they confer upon him their powers and the use (for one time only) of certain weapons in their arsenal.

In the second part, Superman and Hercules battle for the affections of Lois Lane, but an arrow of Eros shot at Lois only makes her love Superman all the more for she was looking at the Man of Steel's eight by ten when Hercules released the love-dart from his bow.

In fustration, the son of Zeus uses Apollo's flute to put Superman asleep for a hundred years. Immediately the Metropolitans get out one of the handy dandy glass display cases they seem to keep in storage for just such occasions, putting the dormant Action Ace on view in the public square, and Lois pines for the king of her heart. Hercules says he'll bring Superman out of his century slumber if but the beautiful journalist would sware her hand to this Greek gladiator.

Such blackmail transgresses the sacred bounds of honest affection, and Aphrodite intervenes on behalf of True Love.

Once awakened by the Love Goddess, the Metropolis Marvel leads Hercules on a chase that breaks through the barriers of time, and as they both emerge in Ancient Greece Hercules loses all memory of what transpired in the distant future.

The story ends with Lois musing, "Why didn't I accept Hercules in the first place!?!"

The second story in this collection of three, from Superman 127 (Feb., 1959), again by Boring and an uncredited writer, in seven and two-thirds pages tells of the misadventures of a hapless chimp named "Toto," shot into orbit only to be transformed by two passing meteors--one of uranium and one of kryptonite--into the titanic primate called "Titano the Super-Ape."

But it's the last story in this triad that had such a profound affect on me when I first read it (here in this Giant and not in its original place back in Superman 164, October 1963, a comic book I long to hold in my hand but never have), the greatest single Superman story ever written, illustrated by Curt Swan and George Klein, and authored by (although uncredited in the Giant) the immortal Edmond Hamilton.

"The Showdown Between Luthor and Superman!" (also called "The Super Duel") tells of the ultimate confrontation between the Last Son of Krypton and his arch enemy on a distant forgotten planet orbiting a red sun.

The story is readily available in Superman in the Sixties (but not in The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told, which is an offense against all reason), so I won't go into deatils here, but at sixteen and two-thirds pages the tales achieves a perfect sense of its two principle characters.

This is the Weisinger Luthor at his best--equal mixtures of evil, genius, brutality, trickery, empathy, sadness, love, and tragedy. And this is Superman. More than the sum of his considerable powers, a noble person haunted by the ghost of a dead planet, struggling for his own survival with only his wits to keep body and soul together.

In their bare knuckles brawl, powerless Kal-El can hardly hold his own against Luthor and as a result wears a black-eye for the rest of the story.

Now I repeat, this is a reprint but it's also issue 239. The very next issue has Superman powerless and bruised by thugs. The previous issues have shown a powerless Superman, the following issues will show the ultimate degradation of Superman, and this Giant shows us a powerless Man of Steel pummelled by his bitter enemy. We see him, in this story, facing the bitter weather and made an outlaw through Luthor's manipulation as the people of "Lexor" celebrate the renegade scientist and condemn the champion of Krypton.

Now when Batman or the Spirit get beaten senseless, it shows how tough they are, it's a way of indicating the high stakes of their crimefighting endeavours. But when Superman, powerless, is beaten up--that's an indication of something else. It enhances this sense of Superman as martyr. The sad suffering Superman.

In the last pages of this Giant is a "new" two page spread Map of Krypton (no doubt the product of ENB's extensive research), and a two page lettercolumn (with great letters by the likes of Rich Morrissey).

Since I don't have the previous Superman Giant in my collection, I can only conclude from this letters page that "Superman's Return to Krypton" (by Siegel and Boring, from Superman 141, November, 1960) and two other stories that I don't know much about--"The Phantom Zone Fugitive" and "Wizard City" (the latter being, I gather, a precursor of Kandor or Argo City in the Superman legend).

It's hard to find copies of these books for under twenty dollars. I'd suggest trying to find a damaged shabby old issue, if even those are on sale anywhere. One issue just to offer a taste of the times. The collections are obviously a good way to see the stories themselves (although I've seen some reprints do a bad job on Murphy Anderson's inks), but having a copy of an actual original (whatever its condition) somehow sets the story into context.

One of the letters from Giant G-84 (Superman 239) and its response puts things into perspective as to where the Superman mythmakers were at, back in those days. Allow me to quote in its entirety...

Dear Editor:

I've been an avid reader for 15 years now, and I've enjoyed your stories very much.

However, checking over my back issues, I find that you've contradicted yourself over the years. If not that, you've got the members of the Superman family and friends doing too many things at once.

Jimmy Olsen--Back in the early '60's, in a Superman Giant, Olsen went back to Krypton before it exploded. Jor-El had finished a rocket for his family, only he did not have time to fuel it. Olsen escaped in a time ship that he had used to reach Krypton.

In Jimmy Olsen #101, Olsen goes to Krypton by a time-transporter watch. He and Jor-El did not get along. Olsen escaped with his watch. Questions: How could Olsen escape by two different methods at the same time? How could Jor-El be simultaneously friendly to Jimmy in one story and unfriendly in another?

Superman and Lois Lane: Lois Lane went to Krypton before it exploded. This was shown in a story years ago. Superman was on Krypton at the same time (see Superman #232 [ie. the previous Giant--India]). They didn't meet, though both were trying to save Krypton. The scenes took place in Kandor. However, both methods failed because Braniac shrank the city. Question: Are both devices still in the city of Kandor?

Another thing--Superman has gone to Krypton on a few occasions. Besides Superman #232 [again the reprint of "Superman's Return to Krypton"--India], he went back in a recent World's Finest. Since the one in Superman occurred first, why did Jor-El and Lara in WF, have no memory of his earlier visit?

Also, you have Jor-El so busy in the last moments of Krypton that I can't see how he accomplished all he did. He finished a robot teacher; he sent several aliens (including Mon-El) back into space; he finished writing his journal; sent his son's rocket into space; and also gave a voice tape to a fellow scientist. You sure keep him hopping.

Also, try to keep the same designs for Kal-El's rocket and his parents' clothes when the end comes. I can't see how the same rocket can change shape in minutes.

Charles C. Vornadore, Greensboro, N. C.

(When we set out to write the first in the World of Krypton series for Superman, these many contradictions--accumulated over a number of years, confronted us. It was decided that the only thing to do was to throw out part of the tales and work out the rest into a consistent whole. The first Olsen story was rejected for several reasons; the Lois tale was junked because it had Kandor stolen before Jor-El and Lara married, while the Superman tale placed it after the wedding. From now on, we'll try to keep our Kryptonian stories free from such contradictions.--E.N.B.)

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This lettercol exchange gives a taste of how Bridwell operated. He's forthcoming, not dismissive, not wise-cracking (though he could write a few puns), informative, patient, and thoughtful.

It also shows that Bridwell was thinking a lot about the legacy of Superman including Krypton. The map in this Giant is a product of that thought. So too is the World of Krypton series that was appearing in the back pages of Superman. Even if Bridwell didn't write all those Krypton stories (he did write a few) he was still the main consultant and architect behind them.

Around this time DC was jumping up from 32 pages for 15c to 48 pages (new + reprints) for 25c. I suspect this left DC in a quandary what to do about their 64 page Giants which had been 25c. So this one was 35c, but I think one of the few Giants that was ever sold at this price. In the end DC would go the 100 Page Super-Spectacular (50c) route.

This Giant also happens to be issue 140 of Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen (August-Sept., 1971) and it comes right in the midst of the Kirby run when Kirby was editor on JO. But no Kirby here. Bridwell is our editor and the only sign of Kirby's Jimmy is on the contents page (with a Swan Superman). This is an All Swan, All Klein, All 1963 comic (the declared theme on the cover is "Amazing Adventures out of this World!").

The combination of Giant G-84 and this one, G-86, put me in a natural 1963 high that summer of '71. I was convinced that Hamilton, Swan, and Klein had been kings in their day (I haven't lost that impression since)--I asked for 1963 Supermans that Christmas and got them from my brother (some pretty good ones, but not 164).

Not to keep you all in suspense much longer, here's the "Table of Contents" for that ish:

A 3-PART NOVEL: SUPERMAN IN KANDOR
INVASION OF THE MYSTERY SUPER-MEN...........2
Earth is shocked by raiders who are as mighty as Superman...and the Man of Steel learns they are from his own world! Only his pal, Jimmy Olsen, accompanies him on the dangerous mission to track them down!
THE DYNAMIC DUO OF KANDOR...............12
In Kandor, where he has no powers, Superman takes a leaf from the Batman's book, as he and Jimmy become Nightwing and Flamebird!
THE CITY OF SUPER-PEOPLE................21
Olsen and his super-pal are hunted by the Kandorians...and Superman condemned to death! Their crime? Trying to save the city and everyone in it from certain doom!

A 2-PART NOVEL FEATURING NIGHTWING AND FLAMEBIRD
THE CAPED CRIMEFIGHTERS OF KANDOR.........34
The Batman and Robin of Kandor return when Superman and Jimmy are called on to stop a super-thief--in a place where Superman is not super!
THE SUPER-SHOWDOWN IN KANDOR............44
With the new Nighthound, Jimmy works solo when Superman lies sick in Kandor! Can a youth and a dog stop a super-powered crook?

Okay so you remember how I was talking about the Sad Superman and about how Superman got injured on his forehead in the July, 1971 issue (No. 140) and about how the beatings are signs of his martyrdom, and how the contusion continued into the next issues (the August and September issues, which happened to come out around the same time as this Olsen Giant)?

Okay so what happens to Superman in the first story in this collection, in the first chapter as he enters the city of Kandor, powerless? Stirred up against Kal-El by Than-Ol, an angry mob which has just pulled down the monumental statue of Superman in the city square see their "traitor" Superman and turn on him and start to stone him, one stone bashes Kal-El on the left side of his forehead (the exact same place he was injured in Superman 240). Luckily, Jimmy commandeers a Kandorian vehicle and rescues his Super-pal before things can get much worse.

"And as the car speeds away through strange streets..."

SUPERMAN: My own people...my father's people...and they've driven me out...tried to kill me! I can't believe it...

And then the two fugitives are tracked through the forests that surround Kandor. The search party uses a pack of telepathic hounds. These hounds can find people at any distance by reading their minds to "see" where they are. in order to put the hounds off their trail, Jimmy and Superman imagine that they are back in the city far from the forest.

They have one ally in the person of Nor-Kann, a scientist living far from the city itself in his suburban mansion. With his help, the two pals assume identities based on Batman and Robin, but since there are no bats or robins in Kandor, they use the common nightwing and flamebird as the models for their costumes. With jet propulsion utility belts they fly from their subterranean Night-Cave to do battle with Than-Ol's henchmen.

In one scene as Superman muses in the gardens of Nor-Kann's mansion...he thinks, "These flowers...these birds...all just as on old Krypton! It makes me think of when I went back through the time-barrier to Krypton before it perished, and met...my father and mother, who didn't dream I was their grown son come back through time...and Lyla Lerrol, whom I loved...and who perished with my parents when Krypton exploded..." And our editor tells us "Superman met Lyla Lerrol in "Superman's Return to Krypton" in issue #232 Giant Superman (providing the reference for the reprint but not the original issue).

Nor-Kann was a good friend of Jor-El and Lara, and he happened to be in Kandor when it was abducted by Brainiac. He acts as a replacement father for Kal-El in these stories.

Another ally proves to be Van-Zee (a Superman look-alike, distant cousin to Kal-El, married to the Earth-born doppelganger of Lois Lane, Sylvia) and his Superman Emergency Squad.

Ultimately the faithless people of Kandor learn they have misunderstood their brother Kal-El and they seek his forgiveness ( the miserable jerks ).

The second Kandor tale in this ish provides even more glimpses into the wonders of Krypton. In the search for a mysterious Super-Thief little anecdotes of the past pop up...

Like the Machine-King, a master computer that the Kryptonians had entrusted with running their political system only to their regret when the Machine-King manufactured its own Machine-Police to enforce its will.

Or the bottle city of crystal people--a shrunken community of semi-intelligent beings created by the biologist Jor-Dan, they live on minerals and would have eaten the entire planet if they hadn't been shrunken to a manageable size.

Or the Winged Ones--creatures part griffin, part pegasus, somewhat like unicorns--revered as sacred by all the people of Krypton, never to be tamed--one was used as a steed by the explorer Dakar-Ra when he stumbled upon an alien invasion at the northern frontiers of the Krypton world and he flew off to raise the alarm in the great cities to the south.

Superman is laid up with the Scarlet Jungle Fever ( that's a clever bit ), leaving Jimmy to track the Super-thief of Kandor. The Super-thief sends a telepathic hound to track Jimmy. As these hounds can read thoughts, the hound realizes that Jimmy is a good person and will be a good master and so he befriends Olsen, thus becoming Night-hound (akin to Batman's Ace the Bat-hound). Jimmy even puts a mask on the hound to disguise him (don't question it, just accept it).

It turns out that the thief makes himself super by using a ring that stores energy from Earth's yellow sun (apparently a few rays of yellow sunlight penetrate into the bottle city, enough so that when stored in the ring it acts as a kind of solar battery to power its wearer). As soon as I read that I started wondering why Superman never used this ring, either in future Kandor stories or in other stories that had him travelling to planets with a red sun--I guess one isn't supposed to ask those questions.

Looking back I can see that Kirby was great, and I would have done better to buy his comics. But at the time I bought very few Kirby books and mostly stayed away from Jimmy, even though he was one of my favourite characters.

Could it be that there were others like me? Mainstream thinking consumers who just weren't ready yet for Kirby, not at DC.

It took Kamandi to turn me around, and yet when you get down to it there are quite a few qualities that Kamandi and Kirby's Olsen share.

Did DC notice a greater interest in the Giant Jimmy than the regular King Olsen?

People love to blame Carmine Infantino (the publisher at the time) for the failure of Kirby's Fourth World (forgetting that it was Infantino who launched the project in the first place), but if they really want to blame someone they should blame me.

While the 60s stories seem important to the Superman "dogma," how should we view the 40s tales? as apocrypha? Or perhaps an attempt by Bridwell to construct an image of the Earth 2 Superman.

The following exchange in the Metropolis Mailbag (from issue 153) may give some insight into where ENB's head was at...

Dear Editor:

Curt Swan and Murphy Anderson are excellent artists; however, I do wish they would start to draw Superman, his friends and foes as they were originally drawn in the '30's and '40's. I also wish Superman would have fewer missions in space and on other planets, and start fighting more criminals like Luthor and the Toyman.

Now I am going to prove to you that Superman was never a super-hero when he was a boy. In other words, he was never known as Superboy. Here are some words quoted from the first Superman story, reprinted in Superman #224: "The passing away of his foster parents greatly grieved Clark Kent. But it strengthened a determination that had been growing in his mind. Clark decided that he must turn his titanic strength into channels that would benefit mankind. And so was created--Superman."

So that proves that Superman began his career after his foster parents died, and as Superman, not Superboy.

Bart P. Rask, Portland, Ore.

And it seems like E. Nelson Bridwell himself is both right and wrong...Fact is, even as some of the reprinted stories indicated, Clark worked for Perry White at the Daily Planet during most of the 40s (Taylor and the Star only appear in the earliest stories). There were even Superboy stories back in the 40s (in More Fun Comics).

However, it's almost certain that Bridwell knew he was bending the truth. But he was being selective for a reason--in order to construct an image of Earth-Two Superman that contrasted with the Earth-One Superman. He even attributes the power "to twist his features into any shape" to the Earth-Two Superman--a little seen power. This power was shown in one of the reprints--as well as another power, "telepathic will control"--in "The Case of the Living Trophies!" reprinted in issue 251, May, 1972, from Superman 45, March-April, 1947.

Reading the JLofA crossovers with the JSofA, the concept of Earth-Two remains rather vague for the first couple of times he shows up. It's only around this time--with the crossover from the previous summer in issues 91 & 92 that Earth-Two Superman starts to look at all different from Earth-One Superman (mainly the insignia is different, while Dillin draws them as twins), and they seem to be matched evenly power for power.

As you're writing this stuff, you are saving it, right? When you "finish," your contributions to this thread should be re-edited into a single document and submitted to Superman homepage. I'm not kidding.

Anyone's free to "steal" the things I've written (I encourage them to do so), and afterall I'm just using the texts that DC has provided.

So back to the reprints...

A couple of stories appeared on this same theme: Does Superman exist (sort of like asking if god exists or if Santa Claus exists)?

In 246 (Dec. '71) there was the charming tale, "There is No Superman!" from Superman 40, May-June, 1946 (uncredited, 12 pages). While previously, in Superman No. 242 (Sept. '71), they reprinted "The Girl Who Didn't Believe in Superman!" from Superman 96, March, 1955, with art by Wayne Boring (writer uncredited, 10 pages).

"There is No Superman" centred on Professor Whiffensniff who challenged the ridiculous stories that Lane and Kent had been writing about a supposed "Superman." While the heart-wrenching "Girl Who Didn't Believe in Superman!" told the story of little Alice Norton of 32 Chesapeake Drive who doesn't believe in Superman because she's blind.

In the latter story, Superman does everything he can to give Alice faith that he exists, but her doubt is insurmountable. Eventually he discovers that there are fragments on her optic nerve which if removed would hopefully restore her sight. But no doctor can perform such a delicate operation. Undaunted, at super speed, Superman studies to be a doctor and operates on her (using his sensitive x-ray vision). In the end Alice Norton can see Superman and becomes an ardent believer.

Another story, this one in issue 241 (August '71), is of particular interest because it's the first story that provides the address for Clark Kent. "Superman's Neighbors" originally appeared in Superman 112, March '57 (art by Boring, 8 pages) and it most certainly influenced the seventies Superman stories--especially those by Len Wein that re-established Clark Kent's address from this reprint--apartment 3B, 344 Clinton Street--and told more stories about CK's neighbors (but characters from Wein's own imagination). Like the seventies Clark, fifties Clark is shown helping the neighbors in his building, often secretly using his powers in their aid.

And "Superman's Day of Truth!" added to the wealth of Krypton lore which was being exploited in the all-new Fabulous World of Krypton stories. Eight pages, originally published in Superman 176, April '65, by writer Leo Dorfman and artists Swan and Klein, the story tells of a day of the year when both Superman and Supergirl are bound to tell the bald honest truth. Turns out this a rite that all Kryptonians must honour in memory of their great culture hero, Val-Lor...

India Ink, I really enjoy your posts. You (and the other posters) have had me rifling through my old comic collection. The story you were talking about, "Superman's Day of Truth," has been a favourite of mine since I was a little kid. It's actually a powerful little tale. It starts out with a lot of genuine humour and ends up being quite moving.

To quote Superman judging a baby contest (to the horror of the babies' mothers): "This is the worst collection of misbehaved brats I've ever seen"

Later, Jimmy Olsen introduces his new girlfriend to Superman. Jimmy says, "How's that for a gorgeous, blue-eyed red-head?" Then, right to the girl's face, Superman says, "Jimmy, my x-ray vision detects she's wearing a wig and blue contact lenses. Are you really two-timing Lucy Lane for this phoney?"

Superman continues to upset people all over town, even telling Perry White his cigar smells like the city dump.

Later in Kandor (as you have said, India) we find out what is behind the tactless truth-telling of Superman and his cousin - the history of the enslavement of the people of Krypton by the ruthless Vrangs. The Vrangs took great pleasure from gunning down Kryptonians with their weapons, torturing the captive Kryptonian leaders, forcing much of the population into slave labour, and feeding the Kryptonians slop from troughs. The people were expected to scrape and beg and smile before the Vrangs on pain of death.

But one day, after years of slavery, a Vrang pointed to a youth in chains and demanded, "Who are you, stripling? Why do you not smile like the others? Are you not happy to serve us?"

The youth stood tall and said, "I will not lie! My name is Val-Lor! I hate and despise you Vrangs. I wish you were all dead!"

The Vrangs shot him to death on the spot, but Val-Lor had not died in vain. The other Kryptonians started to revolt: "While we cringed and pretended to be happy, Val-Lor spoke the truth, hurled it into the teeth of our oppressors!"

It's a neat little story. Val-Lor's defiant speech used to make my spine tingle when I read the story as a kid.

You'd think by 1970 DC would not be fiddling with the issue numbers on their titles, but I guess they were still at it, because with the DC 100 Page Super-Spectacular title they played with the digits. No use looking for issues 1-3, because they don't exist.

The first one was DC-4, Summer '71, a "Wierd Mystery Tales" collection with a cover by Berni Wrightson (DC would do to reprint this as one of their facsimile editions). Then came the "Love Stories" (DC-5) Super-Spec which was reprinted recently. Then the sixth issue was called "World's Greatest Super-Heroes" and had a nice Neal Adams cover showing a mix of JLAers and JSAers--I should think DC will get around to releasing a new edition of this one soon.

After that mostly the Super-Specs are part of the runs of regular titles. As with the next issue, DC-7, which was also Superman 245 (Dec.'71-Jan.'72). In addition to Superman himself, there were stories of Kid Eternity, The Atom (Ray Palmer), Super-Chief, Air-Wave, and Hawkman (silver age version).

Leading off the collection is another epic by Swan and Klein (and no doubt by Edmond Hamilton, though he wasn't credited in this Super-Spec), running at 27 pages, from Superman 167 (February, 1964).

Try reading the story at this link (be patient as it doesn't load so fast): http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004122/http://www.stta.nu/tales2/luthorandbrainiac

There they do indeed credit Hamilton as writer. This one confirms the greatness of the Hamilton/Swan/Klein team (not that there was any doubt). Several elements that were stirring in other stories come together here. We get a slight nod to their work over on the Legion, mention of Lexor (the planet where Lex is a hero), and more Kandor content. The mythology is firmly in place and Hamilton can now move around in it, using bits of it as he pleases.

And finishing out the issue is a ten page Prankster tale from Superman 87, Feb., 1974--"The Prankster's Greatest Role!"--by Al Plastino with an uncredited writer.

The next Super-Spec to headline Superman was issue 252 of Superman (or DC-13), June, 1972.

This one had a stunning Adams wraparound cover showing several DC heroes in flight (Superman being most prominent, you have to look at the whole cover to see his big body flying--later DC would put this image above the title on the Superman book).

The list of characters shown on the cover (as given on the back inside cover) were Superman*, Dr. Fate*, E2 Hawkman* and Hawkgirl*, Black Condor*, the Spectre*, Starman*, the Ray*, Johnny Quick, E1 Hawkman and Hawkgirl, E1 & E2 Green Lanterns (Hal and Alan), Lightray, J'Onn J'Onzz the Martian Manhunter, Kid Eternity, Mr. Keeper, Sir Justin the Shining Knight riding Winged Victory, Red Tornado (II), The Black Racer of Death, and Supergirl (those with an * are characters who actually starred in stories inside the book).

Leading off the book were two finds from the forties--"Powerstone" (Action Comics No. 47, April, 1942, 13 pages) and "When Titans Clash" (Superman No. 17, July-August, 1942, 13 pages). Both stories centre on Luthor's search for a mystic Powerstone with which he gains great power.

I was knocked back on my heels by this Powerstone storyline and I still regard it as one of the great Superman sagas.

And batting clean-up this ish was "Superman's Greatest Feats" from Superman 146, July, 1961, with art by Al Plastino (written by uncredited, 13 pages).

Most Super-Specs continued to be part of the runs of individual titles. But there were some released as stand alone 100 Page Super-Spectaculars. And Superman was the headliner in DC-18, July 1973.

Bridwell finally found a place for that story that was due to be reprinted in issue 254. At least I'm assuming so, because the pic of Superman on the splash of "I Sustain the Wings," is an exact match for the pic Bridwell ran in the lettercol of 253.

This tale comes from Superman 25 (Nov-Dec., 1943), a 12 pager written by none other than Mort Weisinger! A WW II patriotic tale, it's the sort to get the blood pumping with pride. Reporter Clark Kent is sent to Yale University on assignment for the Daily Planet as a trainee at the Army Air Forces Technical Training Command.

Co-Stars in this EXPLOSIVE 100 page extravaganza were tales of the Golden Age and of the Silver Age Atoms, TNT & Dan the Dynamite, The Hour-Man, and Captain Triumph.

A frequent reprint showed up: "Superboy's Last Day in Smallville," (from Superman 97, May, 1955, 10 pages, art by Wayne Boring).

You make T-bone steaks (grilled to order) and baked potatoes for supper.

That's the secret. The reason? Well, on the first day you have a lot of planning to do, checking inventory, figuring out your menus for the next week or two, possibly ordering in supplies. There always seem to be lots of steaks in the freezer on any vessel, and there's always lots of spuds. So you take the steaks out of the freezer to thaw, and you wash the spuds and wrap them in tin-foil and put them in the oven. Then you have a good two or three hours before supper to do an inventory check, get your paper work done. And when the crew see that the new cook is serving steaks to order off the grill with baked potatoes, they instantly are won over--every hand on board a ship seems to love steak and baked potatoes. Your first day and you're an instant hero!

I told that story not just to prepare any new cooks working on small vessels, there's an analogy in there somewhere.

I think that 1971 (or more rightly the latter part of 1970 and the first part of '71) was like a first day for Schwartz and the other editors taking over Superman. They didn't necessarily know what all they wanted to do with the Man of Steel in the years ahead, they were still trying to figure out where they were at, taking stock. So what do they do? They give the readers steak and potatoes.

Look at the things that were happening in '71. Superman struggling against a powerful nemesis over several issues. Jimmy dealing with Boom Tubes and Intergangs. Lois alienated from Superman and embroiled in her Intergang related plots.

All of this is very distracting and gets our attention right away. But where are they going to go with it?

Especially Schwartz whose in the driver's seat with the main Superman title.

In a way the Bridwell reprints are an inventory of what has been done with the Man of Tomorrow in the past. Schwartz can check reader reactions to these tales. But then the Sandman Saga ends and where are we now?

This seems to be the situation immediately after the Saga. They've tried on the Sad Superman bit, the martyr angle. That's one way they could have continued to go. But at that moment (in late '71 and continuing into '72), they don't seem to have any clear plan as to just where they want to go with Superman. In fact they don't quite know who Superman is.

That's why "Must There Be a Superman?" (Superman 247, Jan., 1972) was such an important story. It's a story that strives to define Superman and set his place in the universe (the DC one that includes Green Lanterns and Guardians).

Check Maggin's own comments on this story: http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004122/http://superman.ws/Maggin/must.php

But there actually were few stories like this--stories of the Superman faith. Some stories explore Krypton connections (a la the Hamilton stories of old), some re-define Clark and his environment (a la "Superman's Neighbours"). Few address Superman as saviour (a la "Superman-Red, Superman-Blue"). To my chagrin, Lexor is never mentioned in the new stories. Kandor only appears fleetingly (and no new Nightwing and Flamebird tales, at least for a few years).

Given that the reprints present these possibilities, it's interesting what Schwartz and co. chose to ignore.

Around this time, I'd say we're getting "sci-fan" Superman--meaning both science-fantasy and fandom (given Bates and Maggin started out as fans of Superman).

Despite the similarities in background of Schwartz and Weisinger (both worked with science fiction writers of major standing), the Schwartz brand of science fiction is different--tending to be more grounded in real science. But Superman's world is a fantasy world.

In this struggle to find Superman, Maggin seemed to be in the right place at the right time. On the one hand Maggin had a science-fiction bent (albeit a Kurt Vonnegut bent), but on the other hand he understood Superman.

quote:

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They give the readers steak and potatoes. - India Ink

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A good analogy and an interesting post.

I'm more a fan of steak and potatoes than the hand-wringing, self-pitying warbling that substitutes for character development in a lot of modern comic book stories.

Your comments about a "sad Superman" are very interesting - I'll come back to them in a moment.

The angst-ridden, self-doubting superhero thing takes great creators to pull off. It's often not done well at all. When I see it done poorly, I roll my eyes and shake my head. It's way overdone these days. When it's done extremely well (Steve Ditko's Spider-Man springs immediately to mind) it's like finding gold.

India, do you think the Superman stories we're talking about were so meaty because the writers didn't spend page after page having the heroes whingeing and hand-wringing? Maybe they did it a little, where and when appropriate, but for the most part the stories were plot-driven, ie. we were presented with a great story... we wanted to keep reading; we wanted to see how the story turned out. Who the characters were and what motivated them was always vital, of course, but they didn't wallow in it like hogs in mud - primarily, they got that story rocketing along.

I'll give you an analogy (sort of)... bear with me... I find it hard to like modern TV shows. (Yes, there are some I like, but not a lot.) They seem to have an inappropriate amount of time spent on in-depth character studies (for that, read whingeing and whining), while I'm sitting there thinking, "This is all very well, and I feel sorry for the poor sod, but when is something going to HAPPEN?!"

I contrast this with one of my favourite shows, The Fugitive (David Janssen) - the plots of these episodes are brilliant... they fairly rocket along. We don't need half the show devoted to Dr Kimble blabbering on about how scared he is, how tired of running, how stressed he is at almost getting caught. We just see his face. The guy's petrified! With one expression, he tells us volumes. And in the meantime, THINGS ARE HAPPENING! We get a great idea of the character of Kimble, but we don't need half-hour speeches every other week to tell us about it.

What does this have to do with my all-time favourite Superman ("Superman Breaks Loose," by O'Neil and Swanderson, Superman No 233)?

Damn... I have to go... Gotta drive someone to work. I'll pick this up later. I want to come back to your "sad Superman."

While I'm waiting for you to develop this further, I'll throw in my two cents, something that I've thought about before but which your comments sparked in my brain again.

Some years ago I saw this movie called "In a Lonely Place" directed by the great Nicholas Ray. That one stars Humphrey Bogart and Gloria Graham. There is characterization in this movie, and lots of thoughtful dialogue, but it made me think about my parents' generation--the people born of the Depression who lived and fought through World War Two.

The fact is these people suffered through a lot--and no one had to really tell each other how much they had suffered through, because it was a shared knowledge. They didn't need big long "poor me" monologues, they instantly knew the depth of personal trials.

Having gone through so much in the thirties and forties, these grown-up folks in the fifties and sixties understood the simple pleasure of just being-- no protracted discussions of motivation--

You know, India Ink, (and I absolutely mean this in the nicest possible way) with your incredible store of knowledge and passion for the Silver/Bronze Age Superman, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that ENB himself wasn't one of your parents....

The posts in this thread are amazing, and I thought *I* liked and had a fair handle on the pre-Crisis Supes.

Keep up the outstanding work! (if you're able to, of course)

uh, er, that should read "was one of your parents".

But I think that would be obvious.

Inside is another great chapter in the Saga, by O'Neil/Swan/Anderson. And the back-up is one of my favourite Fabulous World of Krypton stories, by Cary Bates and the late great Gray Morrow--telling the story of Kryp and Tonn, the Adam and Eve of Krypton.

And then there's the letter page. In the late seventies, in college taking an English course in archetypal literature, I quoted at length from this letter in my term paper on Superman--

Here's the text of that letter page in its entirety:

METROPOLIS MAILBAG
S-784

Dear Editor:

I am very happy that new and interesting things are happening with Superman. He has passed a turning point in his life, and that is always intriguing.

Superman has always been the most interesting of all the DC characters--so interesting that he has forged a whole new American mythology around himself. I think it is time that National Periodicals be congratulated for making this very definite contribution to the American culture. One sees Superman and his efforts in every phase of American life. Professor Max Lerner, in America as a Civilization, cites Superman as a contemporary folk hero, even as were King Arthur and Robin Hood of another culture, even as Paul Bunyan and the heroes of the old West in our own culture. Superman is in the media--reruns of a television show rake in the residuals twenty years after they were made, and admen use the Superman theme all over newspapers and magazines.

The greatest compliment is imitation. Superman has been satirized and borrowed from for over thirty years. He is a legend, and one every bit as rich as the legends of the past. Superman is replete with the values of his contemporaries, and their weaknesses--humanity that will not be admitted to under an exterior of strength--a social conscience--reverence for human life--power and the daring to explore the unknown, the assertion of omnipotence. This is the legend of Superman. This is the legend whose growth we of our generation are privileged to witness.

Now the legend grows again. The Man of Steel becomes a TV reporter. He loses an old weakness and finds a new one. He wrestles with the problems of law and justice. He struggles with the inner conflict of belonging, of wanting a place where he can live with people like himself. He could not cope with the simply human existence he would find in the city of Kandor. He is strength. He is dynamism. He is the man who has moved planets and draws his strength from the awesome powers of a bright young star. He has lived with strength and must live with his own kind, living forever, traversing dimensional barriers as barriers of air, learning, growing, always groping for what is right and of value for himself and those whom he is charged to protect.

This is Superman. This is the Man of Steel of our legend. In the '50's, when comics were being blamed for juvenile delinquency and street violence and all manner of social ills, I picked up a Superman comic at a candy store in Brooklyn's East New York. From that magazine, that brief encounter, came my imagination, my own social conscience and reverence for human life, my own daring to dream. It is time that I and a generation like me thanked National Periodicals for Superman. He has helped to make us dream.

Elliot S. Maggin, Brandeis University, Waltham, Mass.

(Well, King Arthur inspired Malory, Tennyson, Mark Twain, and T.H. White. Robin Hood inspired Sir Walter Scott. And it seems Superman has inspired Elliot Maggin to write a moving essay. Super-Thanks, Elliot!E.N.B.)

Dear Editor:

What I really love about Denny O'Neil's Superman is that O'Neil has not fallen prey to one of his greatest faults--one shared by many writers who are, like him adept at characterization. When he took over Green Arrow and The Atom, his characterizations were excellent, but they were completely different from their previous ones! Happily, Superman is the same logical-minded intellectual he always was.

This is most notable where Superman is unable to legally save the islanders. Most heroes would either sit there helplessly or launch into a bitter tirade against "the Establishment." But not Superman! Like the reasonable man he is, he simply says, "There's a moral law above some man-made laws," and sets about saving the natives.

O'Neil can write really excellent plots, and this issue's was no exception. The new weakness, now fully defined, was used well. I certainly hope Murphy Anderson will continue to ink Curt Swan's pencils--as long as he does, I'll have no complaint with the art in this magazine.

It's really incredible how E. Nelson Bridwell can go through those hundreds of back issues and come up with a complete history of the final years of Krypton. "Prison - in - the - Sky" did a fine job in explaining the theory behind the criminals - into - space method of imprisonment. But is that a black man on page 5? It's not a bad idea--but since we've never seen any on Krypton before, it would mean that Krypton had a greater race problem than Earth ever did! I wouldn't want to think that of such an advanced civilization, so let's just call it a mistake, hmmm?

Swan did well in inking his own pencils. All in all, the "new Superman" is the best revamping of a character I've ever seen.

Richard H. Morrissey, Farmingham, Mass.

(That was a black man--of a black civilization on Krypton. See the Map of Krypton in the current Giant Superman (#239) for another look at it. Remember--you see blacks in the U.S. because their ancestors were brought here as slaves. That never happened on Krypton. E.N.B.)

Dear Editor:

Isn't it true that the dissolver-beam that appeared in the World of Krypton story in #234 also appeared in Giant Superboy G-71 ("Tha Phantom Superboy")?

Jerry Cole, Grand Rapids, Mich.

(Correct! It was also mentioned in Giant Superman G-78 ("Father's Day on Planet Krypton"). Congratulations! You're the only reader who noted either of these recent reprints in connection with the dissolver.--E.N.B.)

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Batman Online | The Shadow's Internet Sanctum! | DC/Marvel: The Merging | World's Finest

Founding member of A.P.E.S. - Association for Primate Enhancement and Servitude

"There are times we sleepwalk though our lives, oblivious to the signs around us, until we suddenly wake up and realize that we're not walking at all. We're sliding. Down a greased hill. Towards a boiling pit of . . . life."

quote:

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Originally posted by wbrentleigh:

You know, India Ink, (and I absolutely mean this in the nicest possible way) with your incredible store of knowledge and passion for the Silver/Bronze Age Superman, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that ENB himself wasn't one of your parents....

wbl

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You know what they say about a carpenter and his tools. Well, I only seem to have a lot of knowledge because I've usually dug out the comics in question just before posting. Otherwise I doubt I could keep my facts straight (and even then sometimes I have goofed on this thread). Whereas, from all I've read about my father--er--Mr. Bridwell, I gather that he could pick out the littlest of details from his storehouse of memories, without need for checking the comics themselves. And Superman wasn't even his first love--apparently Bridwell was a devoted fan of Captain Marvel before all other comics characters.

Plus, the late Rich Morrissey, Mark Evanier, and posters on these boards like Osgood Peabody, LinaStrick, Mikishawn, Old Dude, and many many more have shown a vast knowledge that I can't begin to claim.

Anyway, since I'm on a letterpage-quoting jag...

Today I was looking at my copy of Superman 167 (Feb. '64)--that's the issue where "The Team of Luthor and Brainiac !" first appeared, the 27 page epic that was reprinted in Superman 245 (Super-Spec DC-7).

This story is notable for a lot of firsts, and for advancing the mythology further. The first story to reveal Brainiac as an android or his 12th level intelligence. The first story to introduce Ardora--okay she's called Tharla in this story, but she's Ardora in all subsequent Lexor stories, and she'll marry Luthor and have his son. Not to mention revelations about the people who created Brainiac (and the history of Brainiac 5) or further Kandorian trivia.

But on page 8 in the original comic there's an editorial note that instructs us to check the "Metropolis Mailbag" page, where there's this "Special Announcement!"

"Thousands of DC readers have avidly followed the spectacular duels between SUPERMAN and his greatest foe, the nefarious scientist, BRAINIAC." [Lex must have been mad enough to spit when he read that...=>] "Their exciting clashes have taken place deep below the ocean and in distant galaxies. But whether the battleground has been Atlantis or Arcturus, each time BRAINIAC has proved himself an opponent worthy of the Man of Steel's mettle!

"And now let us go behind the scenes and unveil a remarkable conincidence. The fictional character, 'Brainiac,' was created for us by Otto Binder, a famous science fiction writer who is currently the editor of 'Space World,' a magazine for rocket experts. (Otto also created 'Bizarro' and wrote the great Superman novel, 'Krypton Lives On.')

"Shortly after the first 'Brainiac' story appeared in ACTION COMICS, in 1956, we learned that a REAL 'Brainiac' existed...in the form of an ingenious 'Brainiac Computer Kit' invented in 1955 by Edmund C. Berkeley. Mr. Berkeley is a distinguished scientist and a world authority on automation, computers, and robots.

"In deference to his 'Brainiac,' which pre-dates ours, with this issue of SUPERMAN we are changing the characterization of our 'Brainiac' so that the master-villain will henceforth possess a 'computer personality.' We are confident that our readers will approve of this transformation; it should make 'Brainiac' a mightier adversary for the Man of Steel.

"Readers will be interest to learn that they can build their own 'Brainiac' by purchasing one of Mr. Berkeley's computer kits and assembling the parts. Thousands of youngsters, as well as adults, have bought these kits and, by following the simple directions, have been able to construct home-made computers which can solve interesting problems of all kinds. 'Braniac' kits cost less than $20.00 and make an ideal educational hobby. For more information, write for free literature to: Berkeley Enterprises, Inc., 815 Washington Street, Newtonville 60, Mass."

* * *

It's interesting that Berkeley Enterprises owned the "Brainiac computer kit" trademark--which raises questions about DC's trademark ownership of "Brainiac"--I wonder if they ever bought the trademark from Berkeley?

And just by chance on this same letterpage is this letter from a familiar name:

Dear Editor: You've got another winner in "The Sweetheart Superman Forgot." I note that you used a switch by putting the double-L in the middle of SaLLy's name. This story deserves a sequel, but I hope you won't carry it too far. Lori the mermaid was only good for two stories before she became just another supporting character.
E. Nelson Bridwell, Oklahoma City, Okla.

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Originally posted by bluedevil2002:
I don't understand why DC doesn't reprint the entire Sandman saga. They obviously know it's a great story, because they keep reprinting the first issue.

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I totally agree.

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Originally posted by India Ink:
I consider all the men and women who made comics in the sixties and seventies to be my parents.

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I understand where you're coming from.

A couple of days ago I said I would take up the issue of the "sad Superman," and I've thought a lot about this interpretation of Superman and why and how it's different to a "self-pitying Superman."

Is being "sad" the same as feeling sorry for oneself?

India, you have delved into the "sad" aspect quite well enough without me adding my two cents. I was going to say something about not confusing sadness with self-pity - but you don't confuse the two.

The Ultimate Battle is an awesome conclusion to the Sandman Saga. The pathos here is real. Superman finishes on a very heavy note - sad (that word again), with the weight of everything he has been through, and come to realise, on his shoulders.

Superman is very alone at the end.

Yet, don't forget - he started the whole business on such a high note!

Morgan Edge didn't share the joy at Green K on Earth ceasing to exist. "I don't trust anyone who can't be stopped! A wise man once said that 'power corrupts...and absolute power corrupts absolutely!' How do we know Superman will be an exception?"

Despite the new responsibilities in his civilian working life, Superman is pretty upbeat all through this issue. In fact, he seems downright pleased with the way things are turning out. Big changes - but: "I've never felt so confident... knowing that there's absolutely nothing that can harm me! Morgan Edge was wrong! Power isn't corrupting... it's freeing me -- to do unlimited good!"

This was probably my first Superman comic as a very young kid, and its art has always been my favourite single issue of Superman art. Denny O'Neil, however, was also in top form. It's some of his best work, this Saga. Superman genuinely grows and changes through this whole storyline. He starts out feeling "confident" and "unlimited" - but by the end of it all, he feels anything but.

quote:

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Yet, don't forget - he started the whole business on such a high note!

Morgan Edge didn't share the joy at Green K on Earth ceasing to exist. "I don't trust anyone who can't be stopped! A wise man once said that 'power corrupts...and absolute power corrupts absolutely!' How do we know Superman will be an exception?"

Despite the new responsibilities in his civilian working life, Superman is pretty upbeat all through this issue. In fact, he seems downright pleased with the way things are turning out. Big changes - but: "I've never felt so confident... knowing that there's absolutely nothing that can harm me! Morgan Edge was wrong! Power isn't corrupting... it's freeing me -- to do unlimited good!"

This was probably my first Superman comic as a very young kid, and its art has always been my favourite single issue of Superman art.

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Originally posted by India Ink:
In answer to bluedevil, I've seen modest prices on 70s books at the Mile High internet store.

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I checked, and most were in the $10-30 range, with one FN issue at $5.

What would be the best way to petition DC for a TPB of the Sandman arc?

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Batman Online | The Shadow's Internet Sanctum! | DC/Marvel: The Merging | World's Finest

Founding member of A.P.E.S. - Association for Primate Enhancement and Servitude

"There are times we sleepwalk though our lives, oblivious to the signs around us, until we suddenly wake up and realize that we're not walking at all. We're sliding. Down a greased hill. Towards a boiling pit of . . . life."

Regarding "Sad" Superman--I think it would be overmuch for me to claim that he NEVER was self-pitying, but on balance, in most of the instances I can think of, his sadness comes from the external world rather than internal angst.

He's sad for the world, for humanity, for the Kandorians and Metropolitans who turn on him whenever the mood suits them. Superman's perspective is much broader--he sees beyond the petty self-interests of human societies to the greater moral context--and it makes him sad to see the failure of these societies to get beyond their self-imposed borders and achieve harmony with the universe.

quote:

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Originally posted by India Ink:
I'm at a loss to figure out what would get DC to publish the collected Sandman Saga run--if anyone can think of a campaign that would work I'm ready to hear about it and support it.

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Superheroes
Giant freaks
Tear apart the evil
To save the weak
Superheroes
Tell no lies
See all that's true
Though mutant minds

RACER X - SUPERHEROES

http://www.racerxband.com/main.html

But maybe the distinction between that distant past and the present is obvious. They think that the old quaint Weisinger tales don't challenge the present version. But if they published all those good Sandman Saga stories--written by someone who is highly regarded in the present day--that might just be too close to the current version (and yet daringly different).

The biggest shame of the Sandman saga to me is this;

Had they stuck with it, had they actually stayed with a de-powered Superman maybe, just maybe, the reboot wouldn't have been necessary or at least not as far reaching...

But...

Pick up issue # 243 The Starry-Eyed Siren of Space!

On the first page you will find the Man of Steel "trillions of miles out in deep space"... Surviving a supernova explosion!.

Oh well.

You guys have been brilliant here. I wish I had joined in more often with the discussions. I have all these books (Superman & Action) going back to the early 1950's. So its really great to know others appreciate them...

As for back issues...

Try E-bay... You'll be surprised good deals can be found... Be wary, but I think they are out there to be had...

If anyone want�s to start some kind of petition on a Sandman saga TPB pass it my way, I�ll be happy to add my John Hancock...

This thread alone is proof enough that folks are interested in those stories!!!

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With his will, or against his will, a man will reveal himself with every word ---
Ralph Waldo Emerson

[QUOTE]

The Starry-Eyed Siren is one of my favourite Swanderson tales. I'm not sure why it casts such a spell. Msybe it's all the unresolved oddities. Why did Bates send Superman back in time for this adventure? What happened to the "clone" Superman and his Starry-Eyed mate?

It's clear (from the editor's not at the end), that there was more story Bates and Schwartz had in mind (I always thought this story tied in with the "Adam and Eve" story from 238, also by Bates). We'll never know what that sequel might have been.

Starry-Eyed is also interesting because it's the first story in Superman immediately after the Saga. And it's opposite to the Saga. Where Superman is bound to the Earth in the Saga, here he is in outer-space. Where Superman's concerns are focused on the present day (early seventies) urban landscape in the Saga (O'Neil even moves the action to New York proper, as if to accentuate the gritty reality of Superman's battle), here, in Starry Eyed, Bates has Superman in a totally distant time period far removed from mundane concerns.

Mr. Morrissey pointed out that in the first story, by Kirby, Superman doesn't go to SuperTown. SuperTown beckons to Superman as a place where he might be among his own kind--he says, "I need to know more! I've got to see SuperTown--" The Boom Tube opens up and Superman flies off toward SuperTown, but then "Superman feels the sting of apprehension" and he questions whether he can leave Earth at this critical moment--"Is Earth the battleground for some strange Super-War?" And the Man of Steel decides he "can't go on--" turns back--"and as the Boom Tube fades, Superman catches a glimpse of distant, gleaming towers...then like a dream, they too fade, and are gone!"

Whereas, Byrne's Superman has no moral problem with going on to SuperTown--thus affording Byrne the chance to show his Man of Tomorrow in Kirby's Fourth World. But for Rich this was an important distinction. Kirby, in Morrissey's opinion, has greater insight into the drama. It's far more compelling that Superman sacrifices his own curiosity and desire to be among his own kind, for the greater good of Earth! This is the noble (and sad) Superman, as Kirby shows him sitting slumped upon a rock: "Perhaps, someday, I'll try again...but the time is not now--not yet--"

Contrast this with "Superman's Greatest Feats" reprinted in Superman 252's Super-Spec (1972) or "The Amazing Story of Superman-Red and Superman-Blue" reprint in the 1973 Super Spec (DC-18). In both of these tales, Superman isn't sacrificing himself for the world, but he is intervening in the fate of the world.

In "Feats," he saves Atlantis from sinking, rescues Christians from being thrown to the lions in Rome, saves Nathan Hale, saves Lincoln, stops the defeat of General Custer's forces at Little Big Horn, and sends an armada of spaceships toward Krypton allowing Jor-El, Lara, Zor-El, Lyla Lerrol, and even baby Kal-El, among a legion of other Kryptonians, to escape the doomed planet. Superman's paternal concern for certain Earthlings and certain Kryptonians seems to know no bounds. It does turn out to be an alternate universe in the end, but the interesting thing is that Superman never questions his moral right to change history. He makes the presumption that the martyrdom of Christians should be stopped (but maybe that martyrdom was part of God's plan?), that it's better for General Custer to win than Sitting Bull (Superman doesn't travel to the 15th century Americas and inject native people with small pox vaccine, which could have saved millions of innocent people from a horrible death; nor does he go to Nazi Germany and save millions of Jews).

In "Red..Blue," Superman has a list of tasks that he feels he ought to accomplish in his lifetime:
1. Restore Kandor to normal size
2. Find antidote to Green Kryptonite
3. Wipe out Crime and Evil
4. Guard Against______

When Red and Blue provide the enlarged Kryptonians with a new Krypton, the Supermen bring all the chunks of Kryptonite in the cosmos together to form the new planet (thus eliminating Kryptonite--Superman does a similar sort of thing, for the energy beings inhabiting Rao, when he forms a new Krypton out of Kryptonite, in 255's "Sun of Superman" by Bates, taking care of most of the Kryptonite that still remained in space, while, in 233, the Kryptonite on Earth had been changed to iron).

The Supermen have no reservations about putting satellites in orbit around the Earth that "erase all thoughts of evil from the minds of the world's criminals!" One of my favorite scenes in this story is the two-panels of Kruschev and Castro, respectively destroying the missiles ("notify President Kennedy we agree to disarmament with full inspection") and releasing all the prisoners. But Red and Blue are never caught puzzling over the philosophical intricacies of their plan. Meanwhile a now good Luthor develops a serum to cure every known disease!

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3) #243 (Oct. '71) "The Starry-Eyed Siren of Space," story: Cary Bates, 18 pages.
--after nine issues of earth-bound story-telling we get a completely different kind of story, set in outer-space. Mainly a Star Trek tale, this story is pretty standard science fiction stuff (two highly advanced energy beings in containment cells want to know what it's like to have real bodies), but what I like about it are all the wierd hanging unresolved details. For some reason at the start of the story, unwittingly, Superman has flown back in time (as he realizes at the story's end), but just why this was important is never made clear (it's for us to imagine). There's mention of a space-legend about starry-eyed sirens (another promising story possibility that remains unresolved). And the story finishes with some other guy who also looks like Superman and has his powers (never resolved) wandering around space in the distant past. I also like the skeletal monster that comes to life.

The Starry-Eyed Siren is one of my favourite Swanderson tales. I'm not sure why it casts such a spell. Msybe it's all the unresolved oddities. Why did Bates send Superman back in time for this adventure? What happened to the "clone" Superman and his Starry-Eyed mate?

It's clear (from the editor's not at the end), that there was more story Bates and Schwartz had in mind (I always thought this story tied in with the "Adam and Eve" story from 238, also by Bates). We'll never know what that sequel might have been.

Starry-Eyed is also interesting because it's the first story in Superman immediately after the Saga. And it's opposite to the Saga. Where Superman is bound to the Earth in the Saga, here he is in outer-space. Where Superman's concerns are focused on the present day (early seventies) urban landscape in the Saga (O'Neil even moves the action to New York proper, as if to accentuate the gritty reality of Superman's battle), here, in Starry Eyed, Bates has Superman in a totally distant time period far removed from mundane concerns.

The contrast was startling. - India Ink

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Kev-El and India Ink... great posts. India, I am about to rip into one of your "favourite Swanderson tales", so cover your eyes or go make a cup of coffee, or something... (Seriously.)

This story, The Starry-Eyed Siren of Space, is crap. I don't like it. It's an example of Cary Bates at his worst. (Note: there are many dozens of Cary Bates stories I really like.) This story's version of Superman is a typical Bates version... so far over the top as to be ridiculous, a continuity disaster both in terms of the title (coming right off Sandman Saga as Kev says), and a continuity disaster within the confines of the story itself.

It's a limp rip-off of the Classic Trek episode Return to Tomorrow. This theme is nothing earth-shatteringly original in SF (intellects as pure energy desiring physical form), and it undoubtedly pre-dates Shatner-Nimoy Star Trek, but Cary has done a terrible version of it.

First panel, page 1, Superman thinks, "It was good helping out my alien friends in this star system." The sort of line Cary Bates used far too often. No thought put into it. If you think about it, it's a stupid, throwaway line that immediately makes me roll my eyes. Like a lot of Bates' writing, it lacks any substance.

Superman is portrayed in this story as being VERY CERTAIN that he would GLADLY and IMMEDIATELY give up his role as Superman and become Clark Kent full-time if the "trouble-makers" among the human race would just stop (er.....) making trouble. He makes it clear he would give up his powers GLADLY (in effect, he would like to cease being himself?????) if only Earth people would behave and not cause problems for him to fix! The male super-being of the story gives Superman some chemicals that will eradicate four blights from Earth: disease, pollution, crime, and starvation. For crying out loud, Cary Bates... this is just utter rubbish. It is terribly inappropriate writing for Superman. It belongs in Grimm Fairy Tales. (Think about it.) Superman thinks: "...Since Superman will be no longer needed, I can become Clark Kent -- permanently! Finally marry Lois Lane ... raise a family!"

What incredible nonsense. Superman doesn't "become" Clark Kent. He IS Clark Kent. Clark Kent is a super-being. (Hello!) Where is this insatiable desire to remain in his Clark Kent role and marry Lois in the continuity of Superman? It's rubbish, and Cary Bates must take responsibility for a lot of the DC Comics continuity nightmares and disasters through the history of Superman. The writing in this story is a good example of his selfish carelessness.

Superman: "Earth's great hope ...and mine... for a normal life... gone!" (The super-chemicals become ruined.) Wake up -- Superman is not Ditko's Peter Parker. What NORMAL LIFE??!! (It's just awful, careless writing within Superman's continuity.)

Please note (for everyone who doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about): this character was born Kal-El of Krypton. He was born Superman. From a tiny baby he has been Clark Kent. This character (Bates take note) wasn't created when a "normal man" with a "normal life" was bitten by a radioactive Kryptonian.

In part of the story, the super-being who duplicates Superman can't figure out what to do because he is not the REAL Superman.....

...Yet, moments later he does just what the REAL Superman would do because (Superman thinks) "--just as I was going to do! It's as if he read my mind! Well... no wonder -- [he] does "have" my mind."

The story is so inconsistent as to be laughable.

The "unresolved oddities" commented on by India are just the things that annoy me about a lot of the past DC writers and editors who frequently threw caution and continuity and logic to the wind... they just didn't care.

The "unresolved" and completely arbitrary introductions (like the "legend") are NOT strengths of a good story. They show up a lazy and weak piece of writing.

Even the Swanderson work seems below par -- possibly because of a lack of background... just repeating scenes of a few sketched rocks (ie. barren landscape).

All-in-all, a lazy, weak effort. And a very poor Superman story. Coming right off "Sandman", this is little more than a joke.

Awesome post...

The best thing that could be said about the "Starry Eyed Siren" was the beauty and simplicity of the Neil Adams cover... I though for sure they would have included one of his pin-ups in the Adventures 600 anniversary issue...

God, I miss that guy...

The rest of that story was an almost direct rip-off of the "Gamesters of Triskelion" episode of Star Trek, right down to the disembodied brains in the glass cubicles...

Ludicrous coming on the heels of what was possibly the best Superman story of its era...

Of course there is major redemption in Superman 247 in the classic "Must There Be A Superman"...

Unfortunately, once again there was a massive failure of follow up on this truly brilliant story... I distinctly remember buying that issue (yes I still have it, and yes, it set me back a whopping 25 cents ) and anxiously awaiting for the ramifications in Superman 248...

or 249 or 250... But alas...

Just like the Sandman saga, there was no closure...

But there was Terra Man and I'm not ashamed to admit I really liked those stories!!!

I have all my well read originals of all those books too and this thread has me going back and re-reading many of them...

Those were certainly some grand days in the Life of Superman...

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With his will, or against his will, a man will reveal himself with every word ---
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Superman desires the female super-being in her physical form which makes the male super-being (a disembodied intellect) jealous, an emotion he experiences for the "first time." The jealous super-being then manifests himself in physical form as a duplicate of Superman, including the latter's super powers, for the express purpose of killing Superman to punish him for "trying to run off with Rija [the female]."

He does his best to murder Superman in a jealous rage, THEN (this is unbelievable), a short time later, the same jealous would-be murderer conjures up "out of thin air" a potion that will eliminate all crime from Earth!

BUT ALSO! -- despite the super-beings ability to instantly wipe out all crime and disease, etc., the male super-being originally asks for Superman's help because he is afraid his mate "could be stricken with disease or injury" while in physical form!!

(mutter, mutter...)

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But there was Terra Man and I'm not ashamed to admit I really liked those stories!!! -- Kev

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Hey, one of my favourite Superman tales is a Terra Man story by Cary Bates. (I haven't inspected it for inconsistencies.)

To India Ink ....

When you mentioned the Siren story, I recalled I didn't like the story, so I re-read it, and found it worse than I remembered. (This is only one person's opinion.) I wanted to write something about why I didn't like it. Then I had to decide whether or not to actually do so - because you had said it was a favourite of yours. I ran the risk of hurting your feelings.

I wrote what I thought. I figured you might want to hear an honest opinion, even one diametrically opposed to your own.

?

It's when people write from the perspective of the present to rip apart stories of old because they don't fit present standards--that's when I get annoyed. It's very hard to deal with that kind of attitude.

Not having read the story for a few months, I'm not exactly prepared to give a page by page, panel by panel analysis. But I will briefly share a few personal recollections as to why the story is a favourite.

I remember (I can almost physically transport myself to that space in time, in my body at that time) when I saw that cover for 244. I was going through puberty (the ads showing a shameless Vampirella made me freak out--I was always afraid my mother would see them!), so that cover was immensely provocative. Maybe not by today's standards--but by thirteen years old 1971 standards. I couldn't buy it! Not at Ryan's drugs--not with Mrs. Ryan at the counter staring down her glasses at me.

I got it a few months later second hand at the second hand books and comics store over on Rupert--back when a young understanding fellow owned and ran the store (before a capitalistic couple took it over, and armed with an Overstreet Price Guide began charging Mint prices for every second hand comic in the store. I remember this young fellow let me have JLofA no. 52 and Swamp Thing no. 1 for ten cents--both in excellent condition.)

I read it then as a sex story. And I read it today as a sex story foremost. (Just as I regard some of those Star Trek episodes with body switching or body manipulation as primarily sex stories).

Next I like the figures. I think Anderson's inking of Swan is at his very best here. Yeah, there aren't many backgrounds (but I love those space backgrounds, and I love the experimental use of photographic images--at a time when it was very difficult to do this kind of stuff in a regular comic book). And mainly at that age I was most concerned with seeing Superman drawn really well which he was here. Plus it made for a sharp contrast with the Sandman Saga earthbound imagery.

I like the idea of there being these legendary Starry Eyed Sirens of Space. I like all that space lore. I like stories that point toward other things outside the main frame of the story, even if those things are never explored. And I like this whole other life of Superman's that he had in the sixties and seventies--as a resident of the cosmos. He knows about Starry Eyed Sirens. He has travelled the universe and picked up all kinds of scraps of information of cosmic import. We hardly ever see this stuff--mostly we see Superman at the beginning of some story returning from a mission in space. But we know it's there, this other existence that the Man of Tomorrow has--separate from his life in Metropolis and on Earth--so this tale allows us to see that Superman.

I think a lot of the unresolved things would have been resolved in a future story if there was a will to resolve them. I'm happy with the unresolved bits because I made up my own stories about what happened. My theory in my teens was that this could have resulted in a time loop that actually accounts for the myriad of parallel universes. The cloned off Superman and his mate go off and found a new civilization on Krypton, which generates a new parallel timeline, with another Superman meeting up with them, and another parallel timeline and so on.

Another possibility is that this couple formed a civilization on another planet--the one that Kryp came from. Meanwhile Tonn was from Daxam. The Kryp and Tonn story isn't literally true but it's a myth that points to a reality--of how Krypton was formed from two separate civilizations from different planets coming together on this new planet.

In terms of what I've said of late on this thread, though, the "Starry Eyed" story is an important example because it shows another false start. During the early days of Schwartz on Superman there seem to have been several false starts. First they try going with the Sandman Saga Superman, then they drop that, and they introduce this Bates version in "Starry Eyed," and then there's the Maggin philosophical Superman. But none of these ideas were followed up on to any great extent. And it's tempting to speculate why--this isn't a fault of O'Neil, Bates, or Maggin--it's an editorial decision. "Starry Eyed" shows us one path that could have been followed (a more cosmic, space spanning model), but in the end I think Schwartz decided to go with a different (Earth oriented, supporting cast oriented) direction--one that is exemplified by Len Wein in the earlier stories, and one which was picked up by Bates and Maggin.

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Originally posted by India Ink:

In terms of what I've said of late on this thread, though, the "Starry Eyed" story is an important example because it shows another false start. During the early days of Schwartz on Superman there seem to have been several false starts. First they try going with the Sandman Saga Superman, then they drop that, and they introduce this Bates version in "Starry Eyed," and then there's the Maggin philosophical Superman. But none of these ideas were followed up on to any great extent. And it's tempting to speculate why--this isn't a fault of O'Neil, Bates, or Maggin--it's an editorial decision. "Starry Eyed" shows us one path that could have been followed (a more cosmic, space spanning model), but in the end I think Schwartz decided to go with a different (Earth oriented, supporting cast oriented) direction--one that is exemplified by Len Wein in the earlier stories, and one which was picked up by Bates and Maggin.

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As you note, there certainly were some aborted revampings of Superman when Schwartz started out - but I don't know that they are necessarily "false starts". I think the Sand Saga may have been O'Neil's idea, the "Starry Eyed" was Bates' idea, and what you call the philosophical Superman was certainly Maggin's idea. But from what I've heard about Schwartz, he basically just let his writers do what they want, and then nixed anything he didn't like. So what you're calling "false starts" were really just different writers trying to accomplish different things with the character.

It's more like they tried one direction, but then changed direction when they saw that another direction might actually prove more popular.

And it might not have had anything to do with Superman directly.

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I remember (I can almost physically transport myself to that space in time, in my body at that time) when I saw that cover for 244. I was going through puberty (the ads showing a shameless Vampirella made me freak out--I was always afraid my mother would see them!), so that cover was immensely provocative. Maybe not by today's standards--but by thirteen years old 1971 standards. I couldn't buy it! Not at Ryan's drugs--not with Mrs. Ryan at the counter staring down her glasses at me.

I got it a few months later second hand at the second hand books and comics store over on Rupert--back when a young understanding fellow owned and ran the store (before a capitalistic couple took it over, and armed with an Overstreet Price Guide began charging Mint prices for every second hand comic in the store. I remember this young fellow let me have JLofA no. 52 and Swamp Thing no. 1 for ten cents--both in excellent condition.) -- India Ink

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This is cool. I like hearing stuff like this. Thank you for sharing it.

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I read it then as a sex story. And I read it today as a sex story foremost. (Just as I regard some of those Star Trek episodes with body switching or body manipulation as primarily sex stories). -- India Ink

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Well, yes... I agree.

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I can only say that I like it because I liked it. -- India Ink

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I'm glad you said this. It is a lot of fun to critique or review comics, and it's fun to have discussions about the pros and cons of certain comics, but... when it all comes down to it, I like it because I liked it.

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Good Grief! Nine pages. I really have to start being more brief. -- India Ink

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Let's not be hasty.....

India Ink, keep up the good work - I'm enjoying this.

"Starry-Eyed Siren of Space" was among the first Supermans I bought off the stands, so it's difficult for me to be objective about it. However, I think it suffers from its juxtaposition with the end of one of the great sagas in Superman's history.

For all we know, it may have been intended for Action Comics, where Bates was the semi-regular writer at the time, but Schwartz needed to plug it in because O'Neil couldn't come up with something. I have no evidence to support this, just a hunch - because let's face it, after "The Ultimate Battle", O'Neil seems to have lost his creative way with Superman. If you were disappointed with "Siren", what was your reaction to his "Electronic Ghost"? Or the Billy Anders/lynx story? Talk about false starts!

As India Ink said, '72 - '73 was an era of retrenchment through the whole line, as the "Big Changes" were undone, one by one, or in the case of Superman, left unfulfilled.

Here are a few stories from the 1970s that, IMHO, should absolutely be reprinted in color TPBs:

Jack Kirby's run on Jimmy Olsen - a lot of fun, with fantastic Kirby art, these stories are long overdue for contemporary computer coloring. This run is one of the key stories that led to the Superman we have today - not just his personality, but the introduction of Morgan Edge, Intergang, Darkseid, the Guardian and the Newsboy Legion, and some of the best Olsen stories ever.

Who Took the Super Out of Superman!? - from Superman #296 to 299, this also is one of the key stories that led to today's Superman. Not only is the story itself a Bates/Maggin masterpiece, but the introduction of a steamy romantic angle to Lois and Clark's relationship laid the groundwork for the later Lois and Clark show, and for the current marriage between the couple (as noted by Jeph's "Beef Bourginon" reference, which was also introduced in this story) Check out http://web.archive.org/web/20050219003837/http://superman.ws/tales2/whotook/about.php for more info on this fantastic story.

Jim Starlin's Mongul stories - Mongul is still a key character in the mythos, and these stories (which introduced him) show why. Plus, I'd like to finally read them

The "Siren" story, while a confusing read for an 11-year old, nonetheless had some compelling moments for me. The opening page, showing a super-nova gradually creeping up on Superman, was pretty cool. The other page that stayed with me was the one where the alien is reading his mind and you see 4 panels representing war, disease, poverty and pollution - again a visually striking image.

Nonetheless, I concede it's not Bates at his best. I would offer up "Attack of the Micro-Murderer", from Action 403, as a great early Bates story, one of my favorites from the Swanderson era.

But it leads to my other point - those stories over in Action Comics during 1971 - may as well have taken place on a parallel earth. Absolutely no mention was made of the sand creature, the unpredictable loss of super-powers, etc. Maybe one of the things that turned O'Neil off writing Superman was that he couldn't completely control his destiny, as opposed to say, Green Lantern or Green Arrow.

At the time, Superman appeared in 5 different comics under 4 different editors! It was clearly a daunting task to make permanent changes that would be consistently applied by all of the various creative teams.

By the way, one other key story in the Big Change era took place over in World's Finest, my second-favorite comic at the time (#1 being JLA). In issue 202 (May 1971), in a story called "Vengeance of the Tomb-Thing", it is revealed that Superman's robots are all malfunctioning due to pollution in the earth's atmosphere (!!), thereby relegating another Weisinger standby to the scrap heap.

Yet even in this story, written by O'Neil, and edited by Schwartz, nary a reference is made to the Sand Creature. While in the same month, over in Superman, he's struggling to stay airborne! It seems that this schizophrenia extended even to the same creative team!

Even at that early stage, there appeared to be some hesitancy to expand on the "de-powered" theme.

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By the way, one other key story in the Big Change era took place over in World's Finest, my second-favorite comic at the time (#1 being JLA). In issue 202 (May 1971), in a story called "Vengeance of the Tomb-Thing", it is revealed that Superman's robots are all malfunctioning due to pollution in the earth's atmosphere (!!), thereby relegating another Weisinger standby to the scrap heap.
-- Osgood Peabody

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I wasn't too bugged about that lack of linkage in the various Superman books. They seemed linked enough for me, at that time. And I do think that Schwartz allowed some linkage between WF, the self-titled Superman book, and JLofA. I remember one JLofA story by O'Neil that has Superman feeling the effects of his diminished powers.

But in subsequent extended storylines (what some would call "story arcs") Schwartz would put an editorial note at the beginning stating that the story took place after events in other DC books.

Without checking, I'm not sure if Schwartz employed this editorial warning when O'Neil did the extended Bruce Wayne death (tied in with Batman's search for Ra's al Ghul)--I think he might have. The first time I remember remarking it was during the Bat-Murderer storyline in Detective. And I'm fairly certain it was used for "Who Took the Super out of Superman?" among other arcs.

With Bat-Murderer I was suckered by this advisory. I thought it meant that the story I was reading signalled the beginning of a change in Batman--something that would eventually effect all the other titles. But when the status quo was restored with the final issue of the Bat-Murderer storyline, I then understood that it was just a way of covering their butts. By saying the events of the storyline took place after everything else going on in other DC books, they didn't have to deal with pesky letterhacks asking why the story in that month's Justice League of America didn't reflect the events in that month's Detective Comics.

So whenever I saw one of those editorial pronouncements, it made me kinda mad because it was a cagey way of saying "hey, in the end, this storyline won't really matter, because, in the end, the status quo will be restored." On the other hand, this might have been a preferable state of affairs. I'm not sure I needed the events in Justice League of America to reflect the events in The Flash when Barry Allen was on trial for murder. Things got carried too far for my taste--preventing good writers from telling imaginative stories because they couldn't use character B in light of events going on in title X. That certainly was the case when Kurt Busiek got the chance to do a JLA/JSA crossover, only to find that he couldn't really use the JLA or JSA owing to ongoing storylines.

So bringing this all back to the Saga, it may be that Schwartz never actually intended for the events to have any longlasting consequence. It might even be the case that reader confusion, resulted in Schwartz formulating this warning for future extended storylines, just to escape the pickle he got in over the Sandman Saga.

But the lack of such qualifications probably made for a better experience. I think it's precisely because it seemed like the Saga would have consequences that readers still remember it to this day as one of the great storylines. It would still have been pretty great, but if Schwartz, O'Neil and Bridwell had given qualifying statements in the letter column or editorial notes, the magnitude of the tale would not have seemed so important.

For me, though, the Sandman Saga seems to remain apart from all those other multi-part stories - I guess because like any good saga (Aquaman's quest for Mera comes to mind), it's the stories within the epic that really made it memorable. It didn't feel self-contained. It took tantalizingly long to develop. In fact, you could argue that aside from the trilogy of tales that ended it, the episodes weren't even sequential.

The other thing that makes it stand apart is the build-up that preceeded it. The 2-page house ads - 1971 - the year of Superman! The restructuring of all the Superman mags after Weisinger left. New creative teams coming on board. All of these combined to give you this feeling that change was truly in the air.

I guess that's why a lot of us did feel a bit cheated when they didn't follow through.

But it was great while it lasted.

It doesn't seem possible to draw diagrams on the message boards, but the point of my diagram was to indicate some guesses (pure conjecture) as to what alliances, friendships, lines of communication could have existed at DC between various editors (and the writers who worked for them).

Based on my very limited knowledge, I'd guess that Weisinger had good relations with Schiff and Boltinoff (and Hamilton worked for both Schiff and Weisinger). Boltinoff likely got along with Weisinger, Schiff, and Kanigher (Bates worked for both Weisinger and Boltinoff, in turn; while Haney worked for both Kanigher and Boltinoff). Schiff could talk to Weisinger, Boltinoff, or Kanigher. (Schiff and Boltinoff are in the middle of this paradigm with Weisinger and Kanigher at the outer ends--I don't see either outside man having much to do with the other). Kanigher likely had some good verbal bouts with Schiff and Boltinoff, but he probably also jousted with Sheldon Mayer and Julie Schwartz--afterall, Mayer brought both Kanigher and Schwartz along into the DC comic biz, and Kanigher and Schwartz shared the same office space for some time. Julie probably enjoyed the banter with Kanigher (who he used as a writer from time to time, when he was stuck), he got along with Mayer, and he probably was a friendly face for new guy Joe Orlando. Orlando seems to have gotten along with Mayer and Schwartz (Orlando used Mayer as a writer, Schwartz and Orlando shared writers like Len Wein). Elliot Maggin seems to have been Julie's fair haired boy, not having too many dealings with other editors.

All of which leads me to wonder about Cary Bates. In the seventies I just accepted Bates as one of Schwartz's most important writers. But upon reflection (in fact as I've been contributing to this thread), it does actually seem a curious state of affairs that Bates should end up so closely identified with the Schwartz books in the seventies. Bates started out with Weisinger (no mean feat--given that Roy Thomas only lasted about a week with Weisinger--it's curious that Bates, Shooter, and Bridwell had the gumption to stick it out with Mort, whom from all accounts seems to have been a pretty hard-nosed fellow). After Weisinger retired, Bates continued to write the same style of stories for Boltinoff--in Action and in Superboy.

Meanwhile, the Schwartz approach was to throw off the old and embrace the new. He had his own writers, like O'Neil and Friedrich. It doesn't make sense that Julie would go to one of the leftovers from the Weisinger regime. It's even possible that Schwartz might have resented guys like Schiff and Weisinger who limited his use of Superman and Batman in the early days of the JLofA (again, I remind you, this is just conjecture--and I could be totally wrong).

Schwartz did use Swan (with long time Schwartz artist Murphy Anderson), but Julie claims to have never really known too much about art. He relied on guys like Mayer and Infantino for opinions on whether an artist was good enough. It's likely that Infantino was the one who made the Swan and Anderson team the definitive artists for Superman.

Wanting to shape his own vision of Superman, Schwartz would have used writers who could deliver the kind of original material he demanded ("B.O." Schwartz they called him--"B.O" stands for "Be Original).

So how did Bates get his foot in the door?

It may be that Schwartz was stuck for a story to put in 244, so he got an evergreen from Bates--as Osgood Peabody has suggested.

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Originally posted by India Ink:

24) #432 (Feb. '74) "Target of the Toy-Men!" story: Bates, 13 pages.
--You have to realize that in the sixties all the reprint 80 page giants published stories from mainly the fifties and the sixties--so most readers (myself being one) were limited to this contained view of the DC world. But in the early seventies, this policy was reversed (apparently the policy had been maintained because the forties golden age material was viewed as inferior in quality), and we now got to see a great deal of raw (and sometimes quality) material from the golden age. A reprint in one of those 100 page Super-Spectaculars (for 50c) was an eye-opener--it featured the golden-age Toy-Man. All we readers knew of the Toy-Man was the rather conventional cousin to the Prankster with his shortish hair, green suits, and ties. But this reprint showed a long-haired smock-wearing bohemian Toy-Man.

In Action 432, the original Toy-Man is in retirement, but returns when a new upstart Toy-Man tries to steal his thunder--and our original has the smock and the long hair (although his locks have turned white by now). This trend of bringing villains back to their raw roots would continue through the seventies, with the Toy-Man being one of the best examples.

Unfortunately this issue also marks the end of the Swanderson run.

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I'll be getting back to talking about a few more reprints that stick out in my memory from the seventies (possibly in a few days from now), but for now I just wanted to clear up some things in relation to what I said back on page 3 about "Target of the Toy-Men" as quoted above.

I misremembered here. The actual story I was thinking of that possibly inspired the return of the Toy-Man (or Toyman) was "The Toyman's Castle" which originally appeared in Superman no. 47 (July-August, 1947, 12 pages). This was not reprinted in a Super-Spec, but rather in DC Special no. 14, Sept.-Oct. '71. This was the 64 page collection, headlined as "WANTED! the World's Most Dangerous Villains," which spun off into the shortlived reprint comic (WANTED!...).

I remember being stunned by this Toyman story, because with his antiquated clothes, long hair, round spectacles, he was actually in the mood of the early seventies--a time when we hankered after old fashioned styles and made them a part of our new (admittedly bad) taste.

"Kneel To Your Conqueror, Superman" is a great little tale that I've loved since I was a young kid. As with Superman #233 it dates back to my earliest memories of having comic books.

The story originally appeared in 1971 in Action Comics #404. (I have it as a reprint, part of a collection of DC comics of the time, in an Australian reprint edition.)

Brilliant art by Swan and Anderson, and a crisp, compact story by Leo Dorfman.

Clark is sent by Edge to tape a video special about an institute of top scientists. Crossing a mountain range in his mobile TV van on his way to the institute, Clark is caught in a powerful earthquake. His super-vision reveals that the epicentre of the quake is directly under the scientific institute, threating to topple the complex off the side of its mountain home.

Clark switches to Superman and does some nifty (and beautifully-drawn) repairs to some unstable underground caverns, then flies up to the institute to calm what he thinks will be scientific staff in a panic.

But the staff of the institute are perfectly calm. The earthquake was halted by Superman at precisely the moment predicted by Rufus Caesar, the greatest mathematical genius in the country, top advisor and strategist for the Pentagon and space administration, among others.

Superman joins Caesar at Caesar's own estate where the scientific mastermind reveals he is fanatically obsessed with Superman. Superman is his idol, and Caesar has a Superman souvenir collection containing various extraordinary items, including the damaged head of a salvaged Superman robot.

Superman asks, "And what's this empty platform for?"

Caesar: "I've reserved it for the most valuable trophy in my collection. I hope to get it someday soon."

Superman is flattered by all this hero-worship from such a brilliant scientist. He is handed damaged optical lenses from the salavaged head of the Superman robot.

Caesar: "If you glance through them with your x-ray vision, you might recharge their vision powers!"

Superman: "I'd be happy to try."

Superman fits the optical lenses headpiece over his head and activates his x-ray vision.

(I'll continue this.....)

He is suddenly in agony and literally frozen to the spot, the optics headpiece having been rigged by Caesar to amplify Superman's own vision power into a paralysing force.

Caesar then attaches scientific devices to the Man of Steel, designed to siphon off Superman's powers (much like what was happening to Superman in the "Sandman Saga," but this time, rather than it all being due to an act of fate and nature, the power-drain would be deliberate and calculated).

Seated at another device, Caesar (to the protests of his manservant) begins to deliberately siphon the powers of Superman into himself.

Firstly, with Superman fighting the drain mentally, Caesar absorbs the Man of Steel's super-strength. The mad genius goes from being a scrawny, skinny little man to one "pulsing with super-strength!" He squeezes lumps of coal into diamonds to test his super-grip.

As he had told Superman: "This transvector...will siphon off your powers and feed them into my own body. I want to be a hero like you... someone all Earth admires... a super being..."

Against Superman's helpless rage, he then drains the hero's vision powers.

Superman: "Everything's going... black..."

With telescopic vision, Caesar sees a damaged cable car in imminent danger of falling, taking the passengers to their deaths. Superman is beside himself with worry, but as Caesar says, "Worried, eh, Superman? No need to! As an old fan of yours, I know exactly what to do!"

He absorbs flying power next and goes sailing around the room, euphoric. Then, intending to smash through the wall to fly to the rescue of the cable car, Caesar nearly kills himself in a devastating collision with the wall of the room.

As his constantly disapproving manservant says, "Master... you were too hasty! You forgot... you haven't acquired invulnerability yet!"

Caesar, nursing an injured head, decides to absorb all of Superman's remaining super-powers without delay. But first he dresses himself in a superhero costume of his own design, based partly on the garb of Superman and partly on the dress of an ancient Roman Caesar.

Caesar: "...I am about to become...emperor over all the Earth!"

He says to the helpless Superman, "With my brain and your powers, people will be idolizing me as they did you! The whole world will be shouting... HAIL CAESAR!"

Now Caesar attempts to drain all of Superman's remaining powers - but it appears Superman, by using all his will power to try and stop the siphoning, is interfering with the power drain.

Caesar: "Ah... you're fighting me, Superman! But not even your superb mentality can stop the siphon effect of my transvector completely! I can feel your powers ebbing... slowly into me!"

Superman: "Then I do have some control over the power flow!"

With the transvector mechanism shaking and humming, Superman takes the opposite tack - he relaxes, and lets his power flow freely and mightily through the machine into Caesar.

Caesar's body begins to shake and swell, literally ballooning with the intake of super power. "My body... can't take this ghastly pressure!" The power flow into Caesar reaches a critical point. "My molecular structure can't adjust quickly enough!"

He barks at his manservant to throw the cut-off switch, but in the panic the manservant messes with the wrong switch which activates the "reversal relays." The power begins to flow rapidly back into Superman.

Breaking free of the paralysis, Superman rips himself from the mechanism and speeds off to save the cable car.

When Superman returns to apprehend Caesar, it turns out that the power drain back into the Man of Steel took Caesar's own brain and life energies with it, leaving Caesar a wasted, mindless vegetable.

On a lighter note I read the excellent two-parter from Action 495 & 496 dealing with this ancient warrier from the planet Krypton.

Most artists have had those days when they weren't on their game, but Schaffenberger? Never!

Even a bad inking job could hardly dim the obvious talent of the penciller. And the best inker for Kurt was himself--although Dave Hunt and Dan Adkins served Kurt's pencils well.

I''ve been going through my Superman Family stack and it's almost impossible to find a single issue that doesn't have one good Schaffenberger art job--either in the form of a reprint or a new story.

For awhile there, in issues 172 through 180, Schaffenberger was the regular artist on the round-robin of new material stories that led off the book (alternating between Jimmy, Lois, and Supergirl). When the title went to all new material with issue 182, Kurt handled a number of different features, often doing two stories per ish.

In no. 189, Kurt pencilled the first three stories in the issue, 34 pages, doing full art on the first page frontispiece--which has the Superman Family gang gathered around a big cake wishing Superman "Happy Birthday! From the Superman Family" (as then editor ENB notes, Superman "first appeared in Action Comics # 1, June, 1938" and this was the May-June, 1978 issue of Superman Family)--and then Kurt does full art on the Jimmy story that follows, 13 pages.

Oh yeah, Kurt also did the "Superman Family Circle" masthead for the lettercolumn.

With issue 195, May-June, 1979, Schwartz takes the editor's chair away from ENB, but this is also the first issue of Superman Family to spotlight "Mr. & Mrs. Superman", by ENB and Schaffenberger, the delightful series about the young marrieds on Earth 2, which would run for the remainder of the family title's life (the last issue being no. 222, September, 1982).

Someone elsewhere on the boards said Clark was a wimp till Dean Cain's version. I'll come back to this.

I've always been a really big fan of Len Wein. An awful lot of stories of his are favourites of mine, including a great saga in The Amazing Spider-Man - and definitely including his work on Superman (amongst other things).

In this issue, Len Wein tells a neat little story about some weird algae that wanders outside its brief...

The "super-menace" part of the tale is almost a throwaway incident. Where Len Wein really lays down some depth is when he introduces Clark's neighbours. This is not the first story to investigate the people down the hall, but it is a welcome update.

(I think all the neighbours in this story appeared here for the first time. On the 5th page of the story, Clark passes Xavier's door - "Strange--he's my next-door neighbour--but in all the time he's been a tenant, we've never met!")

Mrs Goldstein along the hall tries to play matchmaker between Clark (whom she adores) and her neice, Esther.

Then Clark (a distinctly un-wimpy Clark) drops in on a sort of "Neighbourhood Watch" meeting in the Lewis apartment.

Not only is Clark un-wimpy, he is downright manly and assertive. He disagrees with the position his collective neighbours are taking on an issue, and he stands up to all of them, coming off as a sort of parent-figure.

At the conclusion of the story, Clark's position is proved to be right, and he leaves his slightly wiser neighbours with a scathing remark.

I watched some of the classic Superman (George Reeves) TV episodes as a very young kid, and although I was too small to remember it very well now (certain scenes play at the edges of my memory like a fading dream), I have the impression that Reeves' Kent was much more like the manly Wein version than the wimpy style.

Like I said above, Len Wein lays down a bit of depth in this story, and fleshes out a bit of Clark's private life (ie. the part of his life when he's not "working," whether as Clark Kent the newsman or Superman the superhero).

Good job, Len.

"The Island that Invaded the Earth" Superman #251 (May 1972) - Superman must figure out why a newborn island in the South Pacific is causing Earth's weather to go haywire. Very offbeat menace - surprise ending - and beautiful Swanderson artwork!

"A Matter of Light and Death" World's Finest #207 (November 1971) - Superman and Batman match wits with Dr. Light. Loved the intro. with a group of thugs meeting a shadowy figure in a musty gym to discuss putting a contract out on Superman. Turn the page, and the ringleader turns out to be Clark Kent! It seems Clark's been having mysterious "black-outs", and so he consults the Batman to shadow him (nice touch!). The natural interplay between the World's Finest Duo really made this story.

"Peril of the Planet-Smashers" World's Finest #208 (December 1971) Superman and Dr. Fate team up to battle a magical menace to Earth-2. In this tale, Superman literally moves the continents of the planet in order to combat the alien's magic (no Quarmmian power drain here!), although to be fair, he does break a sweat. Another interesting touch - at the end of this story, Dr. Fate offers to remove the Man of Steel's vulnerability to magic - and Superman refuses!

Yet when I came around to do my little SWANDERSON review, some months ago, I was actually surprised to discover the quantity of tales he had done for Superman, post-O'Neil.

For some reason, my patchwork memory had completely dropped Wein out of the picture--assuming that we went straight from O'Neil to Bates/Maggin.

So upon rediscovering Wein, I also discovered that he had actually written a lot of really good stories. And the kind of stories that would indeed characterize Superman for the rest of the 70s, after Len himself had moved on to other things.

Bates and Maggin would come around to writing the kind of ensemble cast stories that Len had originally set up.

Another aspect of this is humanity. Wein invested all of his characters with humanity. Villains just as much as heroes.

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Originally posted by India Ink:
For more on Kurt, via AWODDC & Alan Asherman, visit the Backdoor to the 70s thread on Other Superman Topics...
http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004146/http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/files/Forum89/HTML/001224.html

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Hi, India Ink...

I just went over and read the post. Thanks. Really interesting. How intriguing that he worked for the O.S.S.*

Also very interesting to read how he did a sort of visual revamp of Lois Lane.

Some of the old-timers had incredibly full and interesting careers. They had such enthusiasm and versatility! Their work had a really healthy dose of integrity.

*Office of Strategic Services, I believe.

I never thought either was a stunning beauty, but Kurt's Lois was nice looking--the way you'd like your mother to look.

It wasn't until the late seventies, when Kurt let her hair down, that I realized Lois was actually beautiful. And beautiful she was indeed in the seventies.

In the sixties, when I didn't know much about comic artists, it confounded me that Lois would sometimes be nice looking and cute, and sometimes the class wallflower.

I always think of Lois as being feisty and beautiful, and DEFINITELY sexy. Beautiful is not always sexy, but this woman is both. Of all the Superman artists from 1938 to 2002, my top pick is the Curt Swan-Murphy Anderson team, but that doesn't lessen my enjoyment of(or admiration for) the Swan-Bob Oksner team. I don't know about you, but Swan-Oksner produced the most gorgeous Lois. With Oksner on the payroll, Lois was a BABE.

If you want me to name stories & issues, I can. (I might anyway... later.)

As I understand it (I don't know where I read it), wasn't Bob a great practitioner of "Good Girl Art" before his work with Superman? It shows...

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It still confounds me why Boring drew her that way (Shuster didn't)--given that when Wayne drew Lyla Lerrol or Aphrodite/Venus or Lara, they were all stunningly beautiful and glamorous.

India Ink

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Yeah...

Do you have the sexy story from Action #235 (1957)? "The Super-Prisoner of Amazon Island." Wayne Boring and Stan Kaye, artists.

This may be an example of what you're talking about. This story is another favourite of mine. The amazons in the story are all very leggy, shapely and sexy. Wayne gave Lois a nice figure (I guess), but still managed to make her homely and dull-looking (the short hair doesn't help).

I'll run through the story for anyone who's never seen it.

Lois and a group of women become marooned on an uncharted island. The girls manage to get the ship's radio working and send out an S.O.S. They are then startled by the appearance of a group of scantily-clad women - the leader introduces herself to Lois and the girls as Elsha, Queen of the Amazons.

Elsha boasts of a "land without men," and explains to Lois that the Amazons despise all men for being weaklings. She demonstrates her strength by throwing a spear clean through a tree trunk.

Superman arrives not long after, and Elsha is shocked by the Man of Steel's feats of super-strength. Of course, it doesn't take her long to decide that Superman is the catch of a lifetime and begins scheming to make him her husband. (Maybe Lois can sympathise with Elsha...)

The Amazons bring chains with which to enforce an Amazonian tribal law, that any man who trespasses on the island must become a slave. Superman is amused by this, but Lois warns him that the chains have a greenish glow. They're made from the metal of a Kryptonite meteor. Superman is about to beat a hasty retreat when he realises the Kryptonite is having no effect on him. He decides to allow them to chain him while he tries to figure out what is preventing the Kryptonite from affecting him.

The Amazons hold an auction for the "super-slave". Lois outbids the Queen but Elsha tears up the Amazonian law and so invalidates the auction. But Superman is still not "free" because now the Queen presents another written law that basically means whichever woman can give Superman a task he is unable to perform must become his wife.

One by one he uses his wits (and super-powers) to perform the tasks. Of the marooned women, only Lois (accidentally) is able to come up with a task Superman cannot carry out. Lois does not want to force Superman to have her, so she comes up with what she thinks is the easiest of the tests - but her test is, in fact, the toughest. She asks Superman what is behind a large rock (a single flower), thinking he will just look through the rock with his x-ray vision. Superman accepts the task, but finds the rock is composed of lead ore, rendering his super-vision useless. The Man of Steel admits he "can't see a thing" behind the rock. Lois pulls out the flower, confirming there's "not a thing" behind the rock, thereby releasing Superman from the trap.

The Queen gives the final task to Superman. She orders him to make her a commoner, and Superman thinks, "How can I change her whole ancestry... or the royal blood in her veins?" Then he uses super-vision to read a tiny inscription on the Queen's crown: "Amazon Law: If crown is lost--or destroyed, the reigning queen loses her royalty."

In the Hercules story I talked about a while back, Lois poses for a photo shoot because the model didn't show up, and there for one panel she's dressed like some sort of moon goddess--and for that one panel, I can see Boring's Lois is every bit as beautiful as any of his other women, when she wants to be.

Oksner drew some lovely women. And when he inked Swan he made Lois one of the most adorable women on the planet.

I stumbled upon one of my favorite Superman stories of all times and wanted to share it with you�

Action Comics #�s 385, 386, & 387 collectively known as �The Immortal Superman�

The story asks this question:

Superman is the most powerful being on Earth� But does that mean he will live longer than normal humans? Will he die after a hundred years? A thousand? No! The mighty Man of Steel will still be going strong a hundred thousand years from now! But will eternal life, with no fear of death be a blessing or a curse to:

�The Immortal Superman!�

In Action # 385 the Man of Steel is pictured sadly floating above the ruins of his Fortress of Solitude...

It seems that in the year 101970, the Fortress has becoming something of a tourist attraction...

And to add to the humiliation, admission is only 38 Donnals!!!

Oh the shame!!!

How did all this happen???

Our story opens with Superman summoned to the Oval Office for a meeting with the President of the United States... It seems that the Army is performing a secret �Vortex� experiment and Superman must not fly into the past or future for the next 24 hours�

No problem ehh???

Unfortunately, at that very moment, the burglar alarm at the Fortress goes off and the Man of Tomorrow is off to investigate�

Upon his arrival, he finds a great machine from the future has written a molten note into the mighty door of the fortress:

�Superman -- Your help urgently needed in year 101,970. Coordinates X78-543/20�

Unwilling to break his promise to the President but unable to ignore a plea for help, Superman must find a way to answer the call for assistance from the far flung future�

Luckily for Superman�

�Some members of the Legion of Super Heroes from the 30th century had to scrap this damaged Time-Bubble the last time they paid me a visit! I wouldn�t take a chance with it normally � But this is an emergency�!

Unfortunately, Superman doesn�t see the LARGE SIGN posted on the side of the Time-Bubble�

There, in bold letters, is this warning:

�OPERABLE BUT DEFECTIVE � SHOULD NOT BE USED!

Doh!!!

It seems that the Bubble won�t disrupt the Space Time Continuum as he would if he were breaking through the time barrier under his own power!

So with little fanfare, he hops aboard the Time-Bubble, sets the coordinates, and is off!!!

As the fantastic journey through time ends, Superman is met by horrifying gasps from the residents of the future!!!

He is hardly recognizable!

� My face -- It feels Leathery -- Withered--Furrowed with a thousand wrinkles!�

Great Krypton! Now I know the Time-Bubbles defect! While transporting me to the future --It caused me to age every year along the way! I�m over 100,000 years old!

Luckily the folks who populate the future have had the foresight to have a �Strength Defier� handy...

The �ultra rigid� bars are held in place by �Cosma-Magnetism�,the mightiest force in the Universe!

�If you can pull them apart � you�re the Superman you always were!�

�A mere exertion of powerful muscles proves the aged Man of Might is still the Super Strength champ of all time��

He Did it!!!

Soon afterward�

It seems that the emergency from the future involves a perplexing bank robbery...

The cosmic Bank of the future holds over 50 Trillion dollars (using 20th century jargon) and someone, or something, has be stealing tons of currency. �How could anything be smuggled out of this room?� muses Superman...

Especially given that the room is protected by �Pulsato-Energy� which dissolves anything within 2 feet!!!

Superman is then introduced to three hero�s of the era who are now in a Para-Coma due to the effects of trying to thwart the currency thief�

Ulp!!!

But Superman rises to the occasion, with these powerful words:

No, I won�t throw in the sponge, despite the risks! Lock me in!

After several hours of boredom locked tight in the bank vault, Superman spies a �synthetic being spawned by the radiation of the Pulsato-Energy��

Surviving the first �devastating� shock given off by the creature, Superman finds safety in the powerful Pulsato-Energy fence where he has time to deduce the creature�s weakness�

It seems the money is not being stolen at all� Its actually Lunch!!!

Superman quickly notes that the creature is eating only the red, yellow and orange currency while ignoring the currency printed in the �cooler� colors of the spectrum� By painting the blue money with yellow dye, Superman tricks the creature into eating it thus poisoning itself!!!

Brilliant!!!

Soon after bidding adiou to the grateful bankers of the future, the Action Ace is headed back to his own time�

�A few more seconds and I�ll be breaking the time barrier again� The machine defect should reverse itself and make me younger on the way back!

But suddenly�

Ooff!... Some kind of weird obstacle sealing off the time dimension! I�ll see if it can stop me if I fly through under my own power�

But Superman�s nightmarish suspicions are confirmed�

�Moons of Krypton! I was afraid of this � Whatever force has frozen the time barrier in impenetrable! Nothing can crack it � Including me! I hope this is only temporary�Otherwise I�m stranded in the future forever! Meantime, Ill zoom down and see what Earth is like in this 1,020th Century!

Unseen by Superman is the floating presence of the man responsible for his dilemma�

It is none other than the Time Trapper�

� Heh-heh� You�ll never see 1970 again, Superman� Because my Temporal Force Barrier will keep the past off limits until the day you die � No matter how many thousands of years it takes!

The Fiend!!!

Unfortunately for Superman, the future offers no welcome... The villains of this era have donned Superman costumes to perform their nefarious deeds!!! He tries to hide but is discovered by the �Multiple Men� who each have 25 Super powers!!!

Using their superpowers of deduction they determine that he is in fact, the Original Man of Steel!!!

�You�ve become a Legend in our era Superman� And we all idolize you! You were the greatest hero of all time! So each of us is honoring you with a gift!...

Suddenly, Superman finds himself immerse in a green mist�

�*Cough* I don�t exactly call these noxious gases �gifts� � They must have a Kryptonite base or they couldn�t effect me like this!�

Feeling numb and groggy Superman attempts to leave but is soon overcome by the effects of the green fog�

�Ohhh� My head! Where am I?�

�You are in the observation pit! exclaims the Doctor! Our tests show you are the Real Superman of the 20th Century! And they showed a few more things that should surprise you!

�Doctor --That�s Kryptonite! exclaims Superman as the Doctor throws a lasso of Green K over the Man of Tomorrow!!!

�Exactly Superman!

And the Action Ace suddenly finds himself bound by the deadly stuff that is poison to him�

Or used to be�

It seems that the �gifts� of the Multiple-Men not only cured Superman of his Kryptonite weakness, he is now also invulnerable to magic and Virus-X from his home planet, Krypton!

Great Rao!!!

This means I can never die� No force in the universe can harm me!

My friends� Lois, Jimmy, Perry, Lana, Batman� All dead ages ago! But I can�t die! I�ll live forever�

And I can never go home!

So the aged Man of Steel is stranded in the future�

Immune to injury, diseases and death� But not to loneliness and heartache! For the next chapter of Superman�s Time Odyssey, get the March issue of ACTION!

(or ask me to continue� )

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With his will, or against his will, a man will reveal himself with every word ---
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Not to quash your review of this truly epic tale, please continue, but if you go through this this long long thread, you'll eventually find I also reviewed these same stories--and I didn't want you to feel embarassed, just because we happened to have reviewed a story we both love so much.

quote:

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(or ask me to continue... )

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quote:

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"The Island that Invaded the Earth" Superman #251 (May 1972) - Superman must figure out why a newborn island in the South Pacific is causing Earth's weather to go haywire. Very offbeat menace - surprise ending - and beautiful Swanderson artwork!

- Osgood Peabody

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Osgood, I went back and read this. The whole island setup reminded me a little of Easter Island, what with those mysterious statues and all... One thing I liked was how the air pressure on the island was immense (any ordinary human would be crushed instantly) in order to duplicate the pressures of the ocean floor from where the island had sprung.

And yes India Ink, I should have known you would have touched on this story�

Aldous, you owe it to yourself to find these books!

Its really a brilliant story and one that I like to point out to folks who think that all Pre-Crisis stories were nonsensical fluff�

The next chapter in the Immortal Superman follows in Action# 386

The Home for Old Super-Heroes!

More than 100,000 years in the future, crime has vanished� Wars are no more� Even accidents have become rare� So where does a Super-hero fit in? Who needs Superman in a Peaceful universe? No one apparently� So he�s sent to join other forgotten champions of the Glorious Past�

The cover on this one alone is priceless with an elder Superman reliving his �Glory Days� with some of his aged fellow do-gooders in the �Old Hero�s Home�

The splash page/Opening sequence of this one is a classic�

We find the man of Steel idling away his time using his heat vision to �whittle these logs into statues of my long dead friends!

Pictured is a sad and dejected Superman, alone with his thoughts, putting the finishing touches on his Lois-Log�

Superman now finds himself in Metropolis in the year 121,970� It is a world ruled by Prime Directive A � 7 and Superman quickly finds himself on the wrong side of the law�

� Halt Intruder! By command of the Violation Patrol!�

�You have openly violated Prime Directive A-7!... The use of any Super-power in Metropolis is strictly forbidden!�

But after the odd strangers arrest, we witness this exchange�

� The offender looks strangely familiar� Yes! I�ve seen someone like him on Hist-Records!... Now what was his name?� �

Doh!

After his re-introduction, Superman learns of the reasons behind Prime Directive A-7!..

�Thirty thousand years ago, three alien super champions settled on Earth and used their fabulous powers for all mankind� But soon savage jealousy arose over the female Nauron and her two suitor�s wage a terrible war with their lethal Proto vision!

All earth was their battlefield� Their fighting lasted two days and then they declared a truce and left Earth�

They were unharmed but the Proto-Energy created a poisonous layer of radiation that spread all over Earth! Even the Filtron Saucer couldn�t remove it�

Hence the banning of all Superpowers�

Of course, Superman understands and is set free with the warning to curb his Super powers or face the consequences�

Wandering the streets of this future Metropolis Superman spots a spectacular sight!

�[i]*Choke* The Daily Planet Building!... I can�t resist the temptation of going inside!

A moment later inside, Superman is amazed!

� Great Galaxies! Advanced technology has accelerated the newspaper game to a Super-speed pace� The Planet has gone completely Video! The printed page must be ancient history in this era��

Selecting and inserting a tape dated 1970, Superman gazes into the viewer�

"1970 was the year reporter Clark Kent vanished! Several months later, enough conclusive evidence was gathered to prove Kent was secretly Superman!"

Several time tapes later Superman discovers what became of his friends�

Lois Lane married a leading Hollywood actor who became famous playing Superman in Motion Pictures� Jimmy Olsen wrote a Best Seller about his years as Superman pal!... Perry White retired as editor and spent his last years in charge of the Superman Museum!

Of course, the unrecognizable Superman still in costume, is quickly given the bums rush by security and is hustled out the front door...

A moment later, outside�

Superman witnesses a flying car, out of control and in danger, and true to his code, he sets out for a timely rescue doing what he does best�

Only to be arrested again for his violation of Prime Directive A-7!... (Seems the out of control car had an �automatic de-solidifier�)...

For his offense, Superman is exiled to the planet Diodn in a nearby solar system�

This is the location of the famous Home for Old Super-Heroes!

Upon his arrival on this new world, he is instantly recognized and hailed as �the Greatest Super-Hero of them all!� and is soon voted as the Leader� But this life is much too slow for the Man of Action and the thought of spending his time watching old tapes of his and his fellow hero�s past exploits proves too much�

Soon Superman has galvanized the old boys into a team and extols them to prove to Earth that Super powers shouldn�t be taboo�

� Yes� yes he�s right�!

�What he says makes sense!�

�We�ll obey our leader��

Not long afterward, a fantastic migration enters the solar system � Earthbound�

Superman quickly eliminates the �Super-Power Detector� with one blast of his heat vision�

And moments later�

There�s an emergency�it could wipe out our city any minute! In a nearby skyscraper is secretly stored the most powerful explosive element in the universe�Nutanium!

Superman and his ages comrades face their impossible challenge�

Superman rallies his tropes and sends them out to do their thing� Electro man uses his �Bolt Charge�� Atom King uses his �Projector Brain�� And the Green Lantern of his day uses his will power to overcome any and all obstacles�

Only moment later the chain reaction takes place and the volatile Nutanium ignites!... But Metropolis gets a reprieve as the Man of Might blurs into action�

And once again he saves the day!!!!!

�All of us owe our lives to Superman! This proves that prime Directive A-7 is a foolish Law� I�ll see that Super powers are made legal again!

Superman will be pleased when he returns!

But he won�t return�

The Metropolis Marvel is accelerating forward through the Time Barrier, even further into the distant future� All the while silently observed by the infamous Time-Trapper�

�There�s nothing for me in this era now but regret! Why didn�t I marry Lois? I miss her so� Now she�s lost forever! All I can do is jump a few dozen centuries ahead.. maybe I�ll find happiness waiting there!� laments the despondent Man of Steel�

What will the immortal Superman find at the next stop along the vast road of eternity? Has the Time Trapper erased the Man of Steels only hope of ever returning to 1970 and the Metropolis he knows?

Rejoin the World�s Loneliest Hero in next months Action�

(or ask me )

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With his will, or against his will, a man will reveal himself with every word ---
Ralph Waldo Emerson

India Ink, as far as who drew a great Lois - I think honorable mention should be given to Dick Giordano - beautiful, vivacious women this man could pencil. In the early '70s, he did most of the Lois covers, and some of the interiors on Rose and the Thorn (who never looked better IMO) and Wonder Woman, in the latter part of her "Emma Peel" era.

quote:

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Originally posted by Aldous:
Osgood, I went back and read this. The whole island setup reminded me a little of Easter Island, what with those mysterious statues and all...

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This 3 part story was truly something different when it came out in 1970�

I think it really proves that the character is/was a viable creative concern and could provide wonderful, brilliant stories when in the right hands�

Today, three issues would barely have us introduced to the main characters but in those ancient days Superman could go to the end of time and back in a mere three issues!!!

A salute to the great artistic team of Swan/Anderson on this one� There isn�t one panel where Superman bicep is larger than his head

Not that I don�t enjoy today�s stuff, but this was state of the art in those days and I think its fair to say there was no one doing work of a higher caliber or of higher quality than the Swan/Anderson team�

I wish I could salute the author of this tale but his (her?) name eludes me�

Perhaps Aldous or India Ink could help me out with the answer to that one�

On to Action Comics # 387�

�I lived on after my home world of Krypton exploded� And now I�m still alive when Earth is a lifeless sphere! I�ve outlived two planets! So I�ll perform my last Super-deed and my greatest I�ll start by splitting Earth in two!�

More than a million years old, the Man of Steel has lost all those he loved� For they belong to a past so remote it is scarcely remembered! Is he doomed to live on in a strange universe?� Or will we finally see the day when�

�Even A Superman Dies!�

Deep within the Milky Way galaxy a strange floating Train drifts through space�

�Great suns! Five Spacemen�frozen in suspended animation�"

Yes, it is Superman, but not the Man of Might we know from 1970, for this is the year 801,970 and Superman has aged every year!...

I could defrost them with my heat vision but it�s been so boring in this blasted future era, I think I�ll revive them in a more dynamic way�

The next moment Superman is hauling them towards the nearest star�

�This would have thrilled me once, An eternity ago! But now even the most spectacular feats don�t give me a charge!�

�I�m just tired of Doing my thing!�

But even in 8001970 the legend of Superman lives on and he is recognized and quickly thanked by the wayward astronauts� He acknowledges them but moves on�

As he cannot return to his era, the Action Ace has no choice but to stay on or move forward in time�

�The past is off limits but the future keeps beckoning me to explore it! I�m on an eternal one-way treadmill!�

And so he is off again, emerging One Million years ahead of 1970�

�Blazes! What is this? I guess I should have expected this! After years of pollution, war, and untold abuses from Man � Earth has been used up! Its just a contaminated globe of waste material now!�

And at that moment approaching from another direction�

�{i]Moons of Krypton! The size of those monster robots staggers even my mind! They are carrying the earth like a giant basketball�[/i]�

Yes friends, the Galactic Sanitation Department has sent a couple of garbage truck robots to dispose of what is left of out small blue planet!

But Superman will have none of this and quickly dispatches the garbage touting dreadnaughts!

But he has a plan�

�Now to see if I can�t give Earth some new life �and a new look!�

The Action Ace then proceeds to drill through the Earth again and again�5000 times a second and only moments later�

�Just as I planned, My super speed drill pattern has split the planet open like an apple!�

He soon has re-ignited the molten core and is off scouring the galaxy for �The right combination of gasses��

�It�s a bit of a strain� But my lungs are powerful enough to suck in this entire cloud and compress it under Super- Pressure!�

At that moment, unbeknownst to Superman, three million miles away�

�Superman is in our Range at last After thousands of centuries we�ve finally pinpointed him! Now we�ll seek him out and fulfill our destiny!

Next, Superman flies to remote worlds all over the galaxy for exotic forms of alien plant life� And then he�s off to find the best birds and beasts to re-populate this world he is creating�

Soon the Action Ace makes one final trip to a young planet still in its prehistoric era�

�I�ve located the type of human inhabitants I want on this alien world� All these aliens are physically similar to the prehistoric men who inhabited the Earth ages ago! And that young couple is exactly what I want�

And it isn�t long until�Something beautiful has been finished�

�Now like Adam & Eve, that primitive couple will start another Human Race� I�ve given the Earth a second chance to flourish and prosper!�

The Earth has been reborn!

Pleased with his work, The Man of Steel leaves new Earth�

When Suddenly!

� Superman! We�ve searched a million years and countless worlds for this moment! Now is the time for the KILL!

A moment later, the motionless form of the Metropolis Marvel floats limply in space�

Jumping back 10,000 centuries for the answer to this riddle we find;

Lex Luthor!

Yes! Luthor�s diabolical genius made sure he could destroy Superman even after his own death!

It seems that when Luthor did die the psychic energy of his brain lived on in the form of a drone weapon traveling the centuries seeking Superman...

But though the killer drone did strike at the man of Might, he still lives�

Swooping out of deep space is the robotic Master Healer

�[i] My life pulse sensors detect a very faint heartbeat from that wounded humanoid ahead... He�ll die unless I treat him!�

It looks like a long shot, but when hope has almost faded, the Action Ace stirs�

At last! you nearly died but I saved your life![i] the Master-Healer beams�

�[i]WHAT! Exclaims Superman� Why did you do a fool thing like that! I�m over one million years old� I�ve outlived everybody and everything I care for� I wanted to die!�

In a blind fury Superman streaks away from the Space station, but suddenly�

Superman is engulfed by the monstrous tail of the Magnor Comet�and swept away at fantastic speeds towards the end of time itself!

�I�m blacking out!

For some time there is only darkness and oblivion� Then the blackness lifts�

�My real parents died when the planet Krypton exploded� Jor-el and Lara! Am I dead? Meeting them in the next world? I�ll ask them��

But when the man of steel opens his mouth he is startled by his own words�

�Me no want to take nap Mommy! Me want to play with Krypto!�

�Great stars! I�m baby Kal-El on Krypton again� Somehow I�m reliving my life!�

So little Kal drifts off to sleep�and when his eyes open, they view a totally different scene�

�That�s Smallville down there� Just as it was when I was Superboy!�

Another blackout� Another awakening...

�I�m an adult now� Appling for a job at the Daily Planet in my Clark Kent identity!�

Scene succeeds scene as Superman reenacts his past life�

Until�

�*GASP!* The Computo-Calendar in my fortress shows this is the day I went into the future� And was stranded� Will I have to do that again?

No�This is after I left! The Time-Bubble I used is gone! Somehow, this time I�ve cheated my fate! But how?�

�Many scientists believe that time curves back on itself�That somewhere, the past and future meet. Well I�ve just proved it! I traveled so far into the future I reached my own past and I got a second chance, Just as I gave Earth a second chance in the future!�

The End!

This is just one of the reasons I love Superman in the 70�s� Today�s fans; would have had epileptic seizures over the ramifications of this story and how it fit into continuity and what about DC 1,000,000 and so on and so forth�

But back in those days�

We couldn�t wait to read about another amazing adventure in the life of the Worlds Greatest Hero...

Superman!

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With his will, or against his will, a man will reveal himself with every word ---
Ralph Waldo Emerson

And thanks for this great thread and your tireless additions!!!

I'm still not convienced about the inking though... I really do believe that at least the first two interors where Swan/Anderson...

But after closer examination on #387...

The inking was distinctly heavier than the first two... So you may be right

Anyone else still here have these issues?

Too bad they didn't see fit to acknowledge those fine artists and writers in those days!

Cary Bates heh?

Great story!!! Maybe one of his finest!!!

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With his will, or against his will, a man will revea