Some posters have told me there was a good continuity going on in that period of time, but I have not been able to find any 70s stuff even at the largest comics store in our area. 60s yes, 70s no. Would anyone care to fill me in on the events, the chronology, the major Superman adventures in the 70s? (I posted something like this for the 1986 through 2000 era a while back. If anyone read it, that's the kind of thing I'm looking for.)

I know there was a while that Clark and Lana worked at a TV station, but that's about it.

Martin Pasko was my personal favourite scribe, coming in at the very end of the seventies. But his work hasn't been reprinted.

Denny O'Neil did an epic storyline for over a year on Superman, which we refer to as the Sandman Saga--that was at the beginning of the seventies, and most of those stories were inked by Anderson (with Giordano doing a star turn on one episode) and all pencilled by Gentleman Curt Swan.

I'll happily recount my personal views on the seventies Superman when I have more time. Right now, just let me say there are two eras that are my favourites for Superman...

It was probably one of the best Superman stories EVER written in any era...

For more info on that GREAT story check this site:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031228214259/http://theages.superman.ws/History/SandSaga.php

I think you'll really like it!!!

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself... A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself..." D.H. Lawrence

Which sucks, 'cause as I understand it, a lot of good stuff came from there. I suppose that fits the universe's sense of irony ... one good thing comes out of the seventies, it's Superman, and I don't get the read it. Yeesh.

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I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors
But I think that God has a sick sense of humor
And when I die I expect to find Him
Laughing

While still retaining much of the continuity that was developed during the 1960's under editor Mort Weisinger, the 70's seemed to present a more "matured" or refined version of that continuity.

Some examples:

1. The origin story: The 1970's saw the first attempt at nailing down a "definitive" Superman origin as well as a somewhat coherent Kryptonian/ El family history.

2. Retaining the more extreme Silver Age characters, like Krypto and Bizarro, yet relegating them to the "fringes" of continuity with only occasional appearances.

3. The supporting cast remaining intact, but giving them much more to do and growing them up a bit....such as Jimmy Olsen becoming a newspaper reporter, Lana Lang becoming a news anchorwoman, Clark Kent changing careers, etc.

4. Eliminating much of the "Kryptonian Klutter" that had sprung up during the 1960's. While the bottle city of Kandor still existed, Superman seldom visited it or referred to it much in any of his 1970's adventures. Much of the "magic fairy land" aspect of Krypton was downplayed (Thought Beasts, waterfalls made of fire) as were the sheer number of Kryptonian survivors established in the 1960's (a running joke through the silver age was that the ONLY people who seemed to actually DIE from Krypton exploding were Jor-El and Lara!).

In addition to the "matured" silver age continuity, there were some new things that had never been seen before in Superman comics:

1. A more thoughtful, philosophical Superman. He spent more time thinking about the ramifications of his actions and his role in society (see "Must There Be a Superman?" from Superman #247 for an example of this kind of story).

2. A maturing of the Lois Lane/Superman relationship. Lois was no longer the perpetual snoop getting into trouble, but an acknowledged romantic interest in Superman's life. While not the sharp talking, gun-toting co-adventurer the modern Lois is, the Lois Lane of the 1970's represented an important step in that direction. She no longer seemed to define herself in relation to Superman ("I hope he'll ask me to marry him someday....sigh.") and instead represented the new "liberated" female of the 1970's (or...as much as the middle-aged men creating the adventures UNDERSTOOD liberated females of the 1970 would allow).

3. The first time that people who were childhood FANS of Superman became CREATORS of Superman. This generation of writers, including Elliot S. Maggin and Martin Pasko, grew up reading Superman and brought their own unique "second generation" understanding to the character. Stories by these creators seemed to connect easier with young people and often dealt with the social issues of the time.

4. Multi-part stories. Up until Marvel Comics revolutionized the style and scope of the typical comic book story, DC comic books typically had two or three separate stories PER ISSUE. Once Marvel popularized the concept of the single story issue, DC followed suit. Gradually, Marvel's single issue stories bled over into multi-issue epics that raised the bar even higher for DC. Once again, DC followed suit....though not to the extent of Marvel's multi-issue story arcs. Superman comics started to include multi-issue stories as well as concepts that would reappear from time to time.

I could go on an on....but the same cannot be said for my lunch hour.

I hope that gives you a little glimpse into the magic of the 1970's Superman.

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Bizarro Mark

The young are moved by greatness. They are inspired by it. Children need heroes. They need them to lift life, to suggest a future you can be hungry for. They need them because heroes, just by being, communicate the romantic and yet realistic idea that you can turn your life into something great. The key, of course, is to have the right heroes--to be lifted by greatness and not just by glamour, to be lit by the desire to do good, as opposed to the desire to do well.

When I said I didn't think I'd ever read one, I was wrong. In the Best Superman Stories Ever Told, I found and read Must There Be A Superman and For The Man Who Has Everything. But now I'm going to start looking for the Sandman saga, and I really would like to find the story of Clark and Lana working in TV. Somehow that intrigues me.

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King Krypton has spoken! Not that anyone's listening, of course. ;)

Check out the updated, expanded, and (IMO) improved version of my infamous Superman movie script outline at http://web.archive.org/web/20031228214259/http://www.deceptions.net/superman/fan_fiction/fan.htm ...or don't, it really doesn't matter to me in the least.

"I am become Death, shatterer of worlds." - J. Robert Oppenheimer, quoting the Upanishad upon an early test of the atomic bomb

quote:

---

Originally posted by garythebari:

It appears that a lot of what I like about the 1986 makeover and beyond really started in the 70s, right? The longer, more involved, less cheesy stories....

---

Disclaimer: Unfortunately, the 70's also had their share of cheesy stories....VERY cheesy stories...particularly toward the end of the decade. The late 70's and early 80's stories are among the most forgettable of Superman's entire 60+ year run. Julius Schwartz, the editor, was getting tired and seemed to slip back into kind of an early Silver Age mode. The horrible inking of Frank Chiaramonte over the beautiful pencils of Curt Swan was also tough to sit through.

If you're gonna start buying back issues, concentrate on the early to mid-70's. Some of the best stuff appeared then and Curt Swan was inked by Murphy Anderson...in my opinion the best inker of Swan's pencils.

quote:

---

Originally posted by garythebari:

But now I'm going to start looking for the Sandman saga, and I really would like to find the story of Clark and Lana working in TV. Somehow that intrigues me.

---

Look no futher than Superman #233, the "kickoff" issue of the "new Superman". In addition to an incredible Neal Adams cover, this story featured the beginning of the new direction for Superman with Clark Kent's reassignment to TV news and the elimination of the Kryptonite threat....which leads to the creation of the Quaarm sand creature.

Let me know if you'd like some additional recommendations for individual issues.

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Bizarro Mark

The young are moved by greatness. They are inspired by it. Children need heroes. They need them to lift life, to suggest a future you can be hungry for. They need them because heroes, just by being, communicate the romantic and yet realistic idea that you can turn your life into something great. The key, of course, is to have the right heroes--to be lifted by greatness and not just by glamour, to be lit by the desire to do good, as opposed to the desire to do well.

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King Krypton has spoken! Not that anyone's listening, of course. ;)

Check out the updated, expanded, and (IMO) improved version of my infamous Superman movie script outline at http://web.archive.org/web/20031228214259/http://www.deceptions.net/superman/fan_fiction/fan.htm ...or don't, it really doesn't matter to me in the least.

"I am become Death, shatterer of worlds." - J. Robert Oppenheimer, quoting the Upanishad upon an early test of the atomic bomb

I didn't see much of Gil Kane, but I do recall his work, I think ... or maybe I've got my timelines screwed up. I was five years old when the 70s mercifully came to an end (this should give you teenagers a clue as to just how horrible the 70s were ... a toddler was disgusted by them).

------------------
I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors
But I think that God has a sick sense of humor
And when I die I expect to find Him
Laughing

Anyway, I would say Anderson was the perfect inker. Williamson (in the eighties), Klein and Oksner come second. With Chiaramonte and Adkins doing competent jobs. But there were some positively bad inkers--Blaisdell did Curt no favours, but his inks were respectable when compared with Vin Colletta who murdered Swan. Since Colletta came immediately after Anderson, the comparison was all the more horrific. It tore my heart out each issue, as I remembered the great Swanderson work, and saw Vinnie's pathetic scratchings.

Yeah there were cheesy stories. But there were lots of great stories, too. And even the cheesy stories have a nice sense of character.

Lana's return to Superman (she had been absent for almost the whole decade of the seventies) came during Pasko's run. She became the new GBS co-anchor, and a four way romance developed between Superman, Lane, Kent, and Lang. Although Lana never really stood a chance. Lana forms the underlying subtext of almost Pasko's entire run, and the basic theme is Superman's love for Lois vs. his love for Earth. Near the end of the run Lana comes to realize that she never was anywhere near to winning his heart. And yet, the reader has come to love Lana, wishes it could be otherwise--ultimately we see things through her eyes and see the complexity of the world where people can't help but hurt each other. This is Superman's sad dilemma and his realization. He's the kind of guy who wants to treat everybody nice, and yet he can't--no matter what choices he makes there will always be someone who gets hurt.

The early seventies was a good model for what today's Superman should be. All the books were linked in a fashion, but you didn't have to read one to understand the other. And there was all kinds of serious stuff going down in each book (with the possible exception of Action, which primarily concentrated on telling good stories). Superman was a real guy and went through some tough soul searching.

The later seventies gave us Pasko's sensitive storyline in Superman, while Action had basicly entertaining stuff, and DC Comics Presents had some epic content from Jim Starlin. But there wasn't the kind of intensity to these books that there had been in the early seventies.

The middle seventies was satisfying for me, but it's a hard case to make that it would be satisfying for everyone else. Because what I liked was the dependable samenity of it all...You have to realize DC tended to go in a decline at the middle of the seventies and a lot of good talent left the company. Far too many books were being put out by raw untried talent who might one day be great but weren't all that great right then. Sometimes a star new talent would come along--like Marshall Rogers--or a seasoned pro would do a little bit here and there (as with Engelhart or Starlin). But in Superman I knew I could get solid storytelling from Bates and Maggin, consistent pencils from Swan, and sometimes good inks from the likes of Bob Oksner or Dan Adkins.

That's what I liked. Superman was my Mary Tyler Moore Show. Just as Mary always had a good show each week, so did Superman each month. And the gang in Superman were a lot like those on MTM (I think Bates actually scripted a few MTM shows)--Perry was Lou, Clark was Murray, Lois was Mary, and Steve (Lombard) was Ted. Well okay, Clark wasn't quite Murray, but you get my point. And there was character development (developing ultimately to that four issue drama in Superman 196-199--where CK and LL had "boef bourgenon" which seemed to be code for sex), it's just that the character development was not popping your eyeballs out stuff. And we didn't expect things to change. Change was not what that Superman was about--instead the writers played with the formula.

Nice positive posts!!!

I think its GREAT to see someone else enjoyed that era and those stories...

I've always thought that part of the "problems" (if any ) with those books is in the comparisons today�s readers make with today's stories...

It is and was a completely different ballgame... And while I think that those 70's book suffer a bit in comparison to todays flashier books, there were still MANY, MANY gems that came from that period of time...

All anyone has to do is take the time to find & read them or ask some of us here for some info...

I think that your whole-hearted endorsement of those books is to be commended... I think its wonderful that there are still folks out there who are not "ashamed" to say they enjoyed those stories...

I know that both Bizzaromark and myself feel the same way you do...

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself... A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself..." D.H. Lawrence

Has the "Sandman Saga" been reprinted in TPB?

I don't mean issue #232, which has been reprinted in the 70s TPB and a Millennium Edition, but the whole storyline.

quote:

---

Originally posted by India Ink:
(developing ultimately to that four issue drama in Superman 196-199--where CK and LL had "boef bourgenon" which seemed to be code for sex)

---

Thanks for the positive words Kev-El.

1- I'd appreciate any Top Ten issues/stories lists of this period from anyone. With ish #s please.

2 - Later period I believe, but what ish was Kandor's enlargement? 336?

3 - Also later period, but what Action issues are the Luthor storyline where he supposedly goes "good" but we find out he hynotized himself? I think it was four-parter.

4- Finally, got any favorite sci-fi themed stories during the Swanderson period? Other worlds, parallel universes, the future, the classic themes.

Thanks to any responders in advance.

Click over to the LSH board and check out our bizarre humor topics. Ya might get some chortles, even a guffaw.

I'm not sure where I got it because it was made a couple years *before* I was born yet its in with the stuff I got as a kid.

Superman no. 257 featuring Green Lantern Tomar-Re as the GL who assigned the sector of the galaxy Krypton inhabited.

A fantastic story as Tomar Re realy feels the pain of failure for having not been able to save Krypton.

Also I think this is where Lara Lor-Vans yellow outfit that we saw in R2K comes from. Is it bad of me to think Supermans mom is goregous?

I have some other comics from the seventies though not quite as good. I deeply respect Curt Swan and his commitement and love for Superman but I've never been a fan of his work. I found the art in this issue much better.

Anyway, its great stuff and has made me decide to go out and get the Superman in the 70's trade. I've been reading alot about these stories on websites and I'm really enjoying them.

The concept of the "sword of Superman" is wonky, but I can dig the idea of his destiny to become Rao one day. I like what Grant Morrison did with this in DC One Million.

I liked that Tomar Re story, too, Solarlord. With Dick Dillin doing the pencils.

He proved that power-levels don't freaking matter when you write the icons as people and make their challenges intresting on multiple levels.

This is actually a newly-developed opinion. Although I own and have read "The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told," I held off in making a final judgment. I want to like Silver Age, I really do. As a curio, I will admit the stories are interesting. Many (but not all) of the story elements are intriguing as well. But honestly, the quality of narrative and its execution is so poor that for me, their real entertainment value is quite low. The stories are not siple, they are simplistic.

Exposition is blatant. Characterization is either shallow and two-dimensional or maudlin and forced. Superman's feats don't strain credibility, they break it. The veracity of simple human interactions ring hopelessly false and contrived. There is absolutely no sense of danger in the stories because you feel the creators themselves took the material less than seriously.

Again, elements of these stories may be good. Sometimes the general plot may not be so bad (ironically, the synopses of the stories that you're liable to find in and around the internet are more enjoyable than the stories themselves). The execution is where the trouble lies.

There is no comparison to the Superman comics of today: The stories now are deeper, with more characterization, more truth, and seem to express more thoughtfulness from the creators. Superman now has dynamics. The situations he finds himself in and the solutions he devises are, though fantastic, generally not as ludicrous. I feel I have more of a stake in this Superman. I feel that his experiences occur in a reality more like mine. I find his current adventures much more satisfying, indeed, exhiliarating.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Village Idiot:

There is no comparison to the Superman comics of today: The stories now are deeper, with more characterization, more truth, and seem to express more thoughtfulness from the creators. Superman now has dynamics.

---

Yeah, like that recent story where Clark revealed that he's a fan of the Beasty Boys (the bachelor party issue).

The Pre-Crisis Superman never had that kind of depth.

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Bizarro Mark

"No arsenal or weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."

But as you say yourself, many of the ideas and concepts in the stories do have alot of merit. Whereas in modern comics we seem to have the exact opposite. We have some really wacked out, convoluted, under done, over done, and some outright stupid ideas that are executed with sophistication and depth.

Also though, do keep in mind that the preception of comics being just and only a kids medium (not to mention the Comics Code) was so much more entrenched than it is today. So you'd often have very high minded ideas needing to be funneled through in a simplistic fashion.

There was also just a different style to comics writing then. Much of the time this style worked very well. Many other times it didn't.

I say its time to marry the two. The better ideas to the better execution.

Also one thing I want to clear up is that 70's Superman is not exactly the Silver Age Superman. Technically he's the Bronze Age Superman which was basically an evolution of the Silver Age Superman minus alot of the sillier and more annoying things of the Silver Age version.

LOL. Also, bizzaromark has a very good point. Not all the execution in modern in Superman comics is high-brow.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha! That was funny. I'm actually laughing as I'm writing this.

But you also bring up a good point: Who did the pre-crisis Superman like to listen to? I'd be surprised if such a personal character element was ever addressed, which goes back to my thesis.

Here here. On the other hand, I'd be more on board with the idea if we could clearly define what we mean by "good ideas." Good ideas to me are continuity, history, mythos. Villains such as Parasite, Braniac, Metallo, and yes, Luthor. Elements like Supergirl, Kandor, and Krypto. This is the stuff that endures; this is the stuff that works; and this is stuff that's already incorporated into the Modern Age.

Bad ideas are "Krytonian birthday sicknesses" (which somehow evolved, yet flies in the face of natural selection). A Krypto that thinks like a human instead of a dog. A Luthor who would rather "best" Superman than actually pose a serious threat. Ludicrously convenient glass domed flying saucers. Casually lifting and flying away with buildings. Terra-man.

Which is not to say that the current series doesn't have its ludricrous moments. I'm still waiting for an adequate explanation as to how Superman directed Krypto to use not just heat vision, but non-lethal heat vision (!?). And of course, there's the "1000 years in Valhalla" debacle.

I think most of the pre-crisis Superman, the parts I like, are either already part of the new continuity, or are becoming part of it thanks to the new team. And I like it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Village Idiot:

But you also bring up a good point: Who did the pre-crisis Superman like to listen to? I'd be surprised if such a personal character element was ever addressed, which goes back to my thesis.

---

I don't recall that Superman listened to any specific artist or style of music. There were times when Superman was pictured in his Fortress of Solitude either composing his OWN music (cool!) or listening to strange, other-worldly music he encountered in his many travels around the galaxy. To me, this fits the character much better than the banal attempt to make Superman "relevant" or "hip" and linking him to a specific band or style of music.

Secondly, and more importantly, I don't think it was ever stressed because, frankly, nobody really cared or thought the information was that important. Superman stories were about pure ADVENTURE, created for a much younger audience....personal details like music preference would have been pretty pointless in that day and age.

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Bizarro Mark

"No arsenal or weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."

Yes, well, anyway, you're right about the perceived standard that the creators felt that they were working towards: entertaining young children. However, richer characterization is not necessarily the exclusive domain of adults. Moreover, as adults (ok, arrested adolescents) we can appreciate a more nuanced characterization with stories that speak more specifically to our own experience.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Village Idiot:

Moreover, as adults (ok, arrested adolescents) we can appreciate a more nuanced characterization with stories that speak more specifically to our own experience.

---

Nuanced characterization? I don't think so. I just don't see what you're seeing in the current Superman titles.

Would you can Superman's all-too frequent temper tantrums of late "nuanced characterization"? You know, the stories showing him destroying planetoids and trashing stuff whenever he's frustrated? The only time that something like that was EVER shown in the Pre-Byrne Superman was when Supergirl died and Superman "popped a bolt". The dramatic power of that sequence shook you to your core, unlike the all-too common sight of the current Superman up-ending tables and punching the ground everytime he's angry.

And how about Lois Lane's horribly "one-note" personality? I find nothing about her character (as it's currently portrayed) the slightest bit "nuanced" or subtle.

I'm just not buying your theory that the modern Superman comics are so much more sophisticated than their 1970's predesessors. Different? Yes. More sophisticated? Hardly.

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Bizarro Mark

"No arsenal or weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women."

quote:

---

Originally posted by SOLARLORD:

Superman no. 257 featuring Green Lantern Tomar-Re as the GL who assigned the sector of the galaxy Krypton inhabited.

A fantastic story as Tomar Re realy feels the pain of failure for having not been able to save Krypton.

---

Absolutely - and you can find it at http://web.archive.org/web/20031020074910/http://www.fortress.am/tales2/greatestGL/

I don't see why there's anything wrong with finding Lara gorgeous - especially in this story

But taken within the context of the story itself, indeed, Superman has had trouble managing his anger lately. For a "Superman," he's been proven fairly impotent (Luthor as President, etc.). As an outlet, he chooses to pummel inanimate objects. In private.

Further, its not too far of an interpetive reach to suggest that he also does this for the same reason that many others would: to remind himself that he indeed has some power. A physical guy taking a physical (albeit non-productive) measure.

This is a Superman who feels things. A man who, like us, is subject to his emotions. A person who doesn't just "do" things (like thwart the villain by creating an air vortex of some kind by flying in circles), but also reacts to his world, sometimes unwisely. This is a deeper Superman, and a deeper, and yes, more sophisticated way of telling the story.

And Lois. You cannot tell me that Lois does not have more depth than her Pre-Crisis counterpart. Silver Age Lois had two dimension: spunky reporter getting into trouble, in love with Superman. She evolved. Now Lois now has a history. She has a family. Her personality is the product that family, for whom she had mixed feelings. She loves Superman, but struggles with that at times as well. This is a much more complex characterization than anything I could find in "Superman in the Seventies."

And in terms of more subtle nuances, as an example, look at how Superman's fear is conveyed. Rarely blatantly articulated, often indicated obliquely. Sometimes, like us, Clark is bold and confident. Also sometimes, and also like us, he's insecure. The best example of the exploration of these themes is in "Superman for All Seasons." Moreover, the presentation of all the characters in Superman in the Modern Era is clearly done with more verisimilitude, more sophistication, and more nuance than you're likely to find in the seventies.

Whew. This was a long one. Thanks for listening (or skimming, as the case may be).

It reads like the true story from which the legends spun off, and all the previous incarnations are those legends, fun to read for some, but no match for the Superman who really lived and inspired those tales. From 1986 through 1999 I beleved that Lois and that Clark, that Metropolis, that (those) Lex Luthor(s), those plots worthy of Dickens.

In the last year and a half it has watered down somewhat, it doesn't have the same "real" quality, but it still is kind of on the track.

It's tough arguing with the brass that they should pop for higher-grade paper, or transfer their printing contract to some place in Canada where they do OFF-SET printing. Or do full-bleed art. But Schwartz looked at some old newspapers when he was in '97, and before you know it--through well placed investments and horse-betting--Julie's a bazillionaire and actually buys out Time-Warner. Now he can make DC do anything he WANTS!

So they do all the conversions. They have to have a lot of lead time on production, though, because they don't have computers. John Costanza actually has to letter all those beautiful fonts himself, by hand--no computer program for him. And the colouring department have to do everything with airbrushes, and photographic plates--no computer separators here. Of course all this can be done (and was being done at magazines like Heavy Metal) in 1977--it's just a lot more expensive than using the computer systems we have now.

Next B.O. (Be Original) Schwartz directs Bates and Maggin and Pasko to write differently. He lays it all out for them--subjective point of view, no thought balloons, no resolution of a plot in a single issue, different characterization in tune with the mood of the 1990s rather than the 1970s, depowered heroes, overpowered villains. This isn't rocket science of course--Maggin, Bates, and Pasko know how to write, so this is just applying different conventions than the ones they have been using (but in movies, tv, soap opera, pulp novels, and Hemingway, there are different conventions, too--so these writers can do this new style while standing on their heads if that's what Julie wants).

Curt learns how to do the knew lay-out style while playing a game of solitaire.

I've always maintained that you MUST read these books in the spirit in which they were written...

You simply cannot read these books (Silver-Age, etc.) using or looking for the same things you do today in comic books...

It just doesn't work and won't work for you if you insist on comparing them in this way...

Although I will tell you all, there are some GREAT stories from those ancient times that would literally blow the socks off some of the stuff we get today...

Its been my experience that there is one particular writer who has mastered the genre and writes Silver-Age stories with a modern twist... His stories are, in almost every respect, the logical predecessors of those Silver-Age books...

The author???

None other than the GREAT Alan Moore!!!

He is THE absolute master of this subject and you can�t help but wonder the depth of the well of his imagination... He alone has made the transition of the various ages and molded them into his own...

I love the old books (and I literally have1000�sof them) I really do, but I will tell you this...

I still think this is a Great Time to be a Superman fan!!!

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself... A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself..." D.H. Lawrence

I was suggesting, however, that the conventions of the seventies--whether at Marvel or DC--were different than the conventions of the nineties.

There really isn't that much difference between seventies Marvel and DC. The difference was more obvious in the sixties.

But things like the rather overused first person narrative (where did this start becoming so popular--Dark Knight Returns? or Watchmen?), full bleed art, defined arcs that stretch over months or even years (there were arcs on Superman in the seventies--a few of them have been mentioned in this thread--it's just that they weren't made out to be "arcs"), special colour effects and lettering effects (Swamp Thing had special lettering effects in the early seventies, but these all had to be done painstakingly by hand), interlinkage up the whazoo, and stories slanted toward a particular cultural milieu that didn't exist in the seventies--things like this seem to add narrative depth because the young reader is so enmired in the culture that he automatically understands that these conventions are signs of narrative depth.

I bought Thriller (the comic book) in the eighties and I thought it amazing for its new narrative innovations. But it didn't sell--because the readership wasn't ready for it. Nowadays those innovative things that were done in Thriller are routine for any comic book.

Same thing sort of with Wasteland--although I think the mainstream medium is still not ready for an anthology title like Wasteland (Flinch doesn't come close--nowhere near Dell Close).

Same thing sort of with Kirby's Fourth World. Kirby was ahead by a few years. He needed the direct sales market to support his book and it didn't exist yet (certainly not at DC). The stuff Kirby did back then is being done now, even in the Superman books--although there are no writer/artists who are capable of producing four bi-monthly interlinked books these days (maybe Byrne if he could get his act together). The closest thing to Kirby is Moore on the ABC books, but there's no overt linkage with his books and he only scripts, he doesn't draw.

But these are obvious examples--if one researched back through the history of comics one would find works that are magnificently complex, while still remaining dead simple in their execution.

----twenty-five SWANDERSONs twenty-five

Superman

1) # 237 (May'71) "Enemy of Earth," story: Denny O'Neil, 22 pages.
--I could probably include all nine issues of the Sandman Saga, but that would take up too many slots on my list, so I've decided to include just a couple of representative stories. This is a personal favourite because it's the first issue I bought (after not reading Superman for a couple of years) and it introduced me to all the changes. But I like it for other reasons, too--like the ants. Lois is on assignment in South America, there's a marching army of red ants coming ever closer to her, while Superman is exiled in space. Swan and Anderson were great at doing very realistic, very detailed flora and fauna. The ants are amazing, and when they grow to giant size, watch out!

2) # 242 (Sept. '71) "The Ultimate Battle," story: O'Neil, 22pages.
--The big you'll never forget it conclusion to the whole saga. Chinese demons, a sand creature, a couple of homeless guys, a blind oriental sage, and the Metropolis Marvel. When they said "Ultimate," they meant it.

3) #243 (Oct. '71) "The Starry-Eyed Siren of Space," story: Cary Bates, 18 pages.
--after nine issues of earth-bound story-telling we get a completely different kind of story, set in outer-space. Mainly a Star Trek tale, this story is pretty standard science fiction stuff (two highly advanced energy beings in containment cells want to know what it's like to have real bodies), but what I like about it are all the wierd hanging unresolved details. For some reason at the start of the story, unwittingly, Superman has flown back in time (as he realizes at the story's end), but just why this was important is never made clear (it's for us to imagine). There's mention of a space-legend about starry-eyed sirens (another promising story possibility that remains unresolved). And the story finishes with some other guy who also looks like Superman and has his powers (never resolved) wandering around space in the distant past. I also like the skeletal monster that comes to life.

4) #246 (Dec. '71) "Danger Monster at Work!" story: Len Wein, 17 pages.
--This one has a front story showing STAR labs (a new concept in the Superman stories at this time) where Superman brings a strange germ that becomes a monster, but weaved into this is a back story about some of the people at Clark's apartment building forming a vigilante group. Among those at 344 Clinton Street we get to see the doorman Frank, wheel-chair bound Mrs. Goldstein, Nathan Warbow, Mr. & Mrs. Lewis, Jonathan Slaughter, and Harold Jenkins, while the mysterious Mr. X is mentioned but never seen (Mr. X--Mr. Xavier--is mentioned in other tales, like The Private Life of Clark Kent story in 254, by Len Wein and Neal Adams, and in 258, another TPLOCK, the story by Bates, Swan, and Giordano asks "Who is Mr. X?" I believe this was all an in-joke--apparently Prof. X of the X-Men was residing in Clark's apartment building).

5) #247 (Jan. '72) TPLOCK: "When on Earth..." story: Denny O'Neil; art: C. DOuglas Swan, M. Clyde AndersOn--with the "O" in those credits lettered larger than the other letters--8 pages.
--I believe this was the first in the series of Private Life stories. "When on Earth..." do as Earthlings do. The story centres on ordinary Clark trying to help the younger brother of his secretary at WGBS. Bick has fallen in with a rough crowd, and Clark goes to the bad part of town (where the taxi drivers don't stop, they just slow down to let you off) to try and reason with the lad. There's a scene in Clark's apartment where he tries smoking a pipe and gives it up in disgust, wondering why human's smoke such horrible stuff. In the bad part of town, Murphy does a beautiful shading thing on the bottom of page five (using a wash?) that gives it all a murky photographic look. Murphy was doing stuff like that at this time. The lead story in this issue was Maggin's "Does the World Need a Superman?" which has been reprinted a couple of times--but I felt, although a great story, it's gotten too much attention and didn't include it in this list.

continuing
twenty-five SWANDERSONs twenty-five

Superman

5 cont'd) # 247--repenting a few errors I made in haste...Maggin's lead story, of course, was "Must There Be A Superman?" And the older sister of Bick, in the back-up story, was Amy, a WGBS receptionist, but not necessarily Clark's secretary, as I stated.

6) # 249 (March '72) "The Challenge of Terra-Man," story: Bates, 18 pages.
--Would someone enlighten me as to why this seventies villain is so maligned? I don't get it. I like this character--he's one of the best Superman villains created in the seventies (there weren't that many). He's not Darkseid nor the Joker. Those kinds of villains demand epic material--and suffer from overuse. So Terra-Man fills in for the more normal stories between the epics. He's like so many other villains in Schwartz books (Captain Cold, the Tattooed Man, Chronos, Amos Fortune, Johnny Witts)--he's not terribly handsome, an ordinary guy with a mix of the old west and space-opera functioning as a working class super-villain. He does the job and gives the artists an opportunity for interesting visuals--a winged horse, sci-fi techware, old west fashions.

In one issue we get Archie and Edith, a beautiful scene of Terra-man on his Arguvian space-steed against the twilight cityscape, Krytonian history files, and a back-up story by Bates, Dick Dillin, and Neal Adams ("The Origin of Terra-Man," seven pages). You read the lead story, and then the back-up, and then you have to go back and read the lead again because you now understand Terra-Man much better and the story reads differently the second time through.

7) # 255 (Aug. '72) "The Sun of Superman," story: Bates, 16pages.

8) # 257 (Oct. '72) "Superman Battles the War-Horn!" story: Bates, 16 pages.

9) # 262 (March '73) TPLOCK "Puzzle of the Telepathic Twins!" story: Elliot S! Maggin, 9 pages.

10) # 264 (June '73) "Secret of the Phantom Quarterback!" story: Bates, 16 pages.

11) # 267 (Sept. '73) "World Beneath the North Pole!" story: Maggin, 16 pages.

12) # 270 (Dec. '73) "The Viking from Valhalla!" story: Maggin, 14 pages.

Page three, the title page, has Clark crashing through a wharf down into the water below it, all the while musing in his private thoughts, and changing clothes to become Superman and fly out of the water--ALL IN ONE PANEL. One of those things Curt would do every now and then...showing a body in motion through multiple movements all in one panel and every twist and turn leading naturally into the next--other artists would have used several panels.

So this page was featured in The Amazing World of Superman--Metropolis Edition (1973)--a black and white tabloid size edition (from Metropolis, Illinois) that I sent away for in the mail. And there was a big feature detailing every phase of how a comicbook is made. The feature showed the typed script, pencilled page, lettered page, and inked page for page three of "Superman Battles the War-horn."

Not just that, but all kinds of photographs, as well...including Dennis O'Neil typing a script, Curt Swan pencilling a page, Murphy Anderson inking, Julie Schwartz schwartzing, Sol Harrison producing, Joseph Letterese and Morris Waldinger and Gaspar Saladino lettering, Lillian Mandel scheduling the layout, Gerda Gattel proofreading, young Alan Kupperberg correcting art, Glynnis Wein doing paste-ups. Jack Adler and E. Nelson Bridwell are in there, too (don't know what they're up to). And getting together the foreign editions of DC books, Lois Baker and Milt Snappin. And photos of the engravers--Chemical Colorplate in Bridgeport, Connecticut. And photos of virtually every stage of the printing process at World Color Printing in Sparta, Illinois.

10) "Secret of the Phantom Quarterback!"
--Oh, poor Clark--this story marks a rather dreary turn of events in his life as it ends with Steve Lombard being hired as the resident jock in the WGBS news division. And the overbearing fella would try to make Clark's life miserable (although Clark usually turned Steve's tricks upon himself)--but he wasn't all bad (how could he be with a smart, attractive aunt like mystery-writer Kaye Daye).

11) "World Beneath the North Pole"
--begins with an insult that shoulda made a man out of Clark, as they are all at the beach (Steve, Clark, and Lois) and Steve kicks sand in Clark's face. But Clark meets Jamie Lombard--the nephew of Steve--and soon Superman and Jamie are on an adventure to the top of the world and below it to a Pellucidarian land in search of Jamie's lost father. Much as this story borrows from ERB and Jules Verne it also predicts Grell's Warlord (set in another world beneath the North Pole).

12) "The Viking from Valahalla"
--Still another lost world was Valhalla, Maine where Valdemar the Viking resided (as first seen in Superman # 260). Valdemar decides to visit the big city where his friend, Superman, lives and comes riding on his giant falcon (Skagerrak) swinging his flaming sword.

Okay, yes, I can see the point that some might make--this is silly, all these lost worlds, etc. But they accomplish one main thing--showing us an interesting juxtaposition of many unrelated elements. The sight of Valdemar upon that great falcon in the city's canyons of steel, concrete, and glass--the beauty of Anderson's inks on that marvelously detailed bird--somehow contains greater meaning than the simple plot might suggest. These scenes work on a level that goes right past the rational mind and directly to the place where dreams reside.

I also like the fact that Superman/Clark could be equally at home among some rather far-out dudes OR down-to-earth working class folk.

Action Comics

13) # 398 (March '71) Untold Tales of the Fortress: "Spawn of the Unknown," story: Geoff Brown (aka Leo Dorfman), 8 pages.
--At this time Murray Boltinoff was the resident editor on Action and, although he followed the changes in the other books (like Superman, Lois Lane, & Jimmy Olsen ), he didn't set trends. In fact his books seemed like a fusion of old-style Weisinger Superman and the Amazing New Adventures. There were no Sandman Sagas to be found here (or Fourth Worlds).

Keeping up the tradition were two mainstays from the Weisinger era--senior writer Leo Dorfman and young enfant terrible Cary Bates (Bates began writing for the Superman books in the mid-sixties when he was about fourteen or so).

It is, of course, the story of Superman's son, Gregor, his strange transformations and his tragic death. Actually Gregor was Gregor Nagy, son of scientist Jan Nagy, but upon Jan's death Superman becomes the teen's new guardian. Gregor is none to happy with this arrangement, and then begins to display unusual powers of transformation, earning him the name "Changeling!"

15) # 408 (Jan. '72) "The Secret of Super-X!" story: Bates, 7 pages.
--Although this back-up appears under the title of "Superman," it was in fact another one of those short-lived series, although it would return as "Superman--the In-Between Years," ie. stories about Superman/boy's years at college, after leaving Smallville but before coming to Metropolis.

16) # 414 (July '72) "Superman vs. Superstar!" Bates, 15 pages.
--The actor is the perfect realization of Swan and Anderson's Man of Steel. Appearing in a series of Superman films, he becomse idolized by millions, as though he were the real Superman. But then tragedy strikes, and the superstar meets with an accident that will forever change his body.

The actor in this case is Gregory Reed and the accident is a fire on the set not a fall from a horse. Reed manages to fake being Superman's double, but in the end Kal-El discovers the tragic truth. A few years later, Reed would recover his amazing good looks and resemblance to the Man of Steel.

Of course, Bates didn't know there would ever be a Christopher Reeve--Gregory Reed is intended as a tragic echo of George Reeves, the TV Superman.

The dialogue crackles with brilliant and funny exchanges such as the greetings between Brainiac and Grax on the first page...
Brainiac: "Grax--you! Why you bluefaced freak...I ought to--"
Grax: "You 12th level moron, you dare threaten a 20th order intelligence? I'll scramble your circuits!"

This two-parter brought together Luthor, Brainiac, Grax (last seen in Action 342) and the Maurauder (last seen in Action 378) in an uneasy alliance, presumably to make peace with Superman.

Luthor, by the way, has given up his prison greys at this time--he's wearing a space-age green, black, and white number--it would be a few more years before he started wearing that purple and green super-suit.

quote:

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Originally posted by SOLARLORD:
Also one thing I want to clear up is that 70's Superman is not exactly the Silver Age Superman. Technically he's the Bronze Age Superman which was basically an evolution of the Silver Age Superman minus alot of the sillier and more annoying things of the Silver Age version.

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To be honest, I feel like the Swan and Oksner (Swoksner) Superman is MY Superman. Because...I came in on the Swan and Anderson work after it was well under way, and Colletta's inks after that were so disappointing that Oksner's inks looked all the better by comparison. And I just like Bob Oksner's art--as an inker but also as a penciller. He drew Mary Marvel the way I would always like to see her and before being a Superman inker he worked on many many DC humour comics.

Perhaps one day I'll tackle the Swoksner Superman, but right now let's continue with...

twenty-five SWANDERSONs twenty-five

in

Action

20) # 421 (Feb. '73) "The Fantastic Feats of Captain Strong!" story: Bates, 16 pages.

--Captain Strong is essentially an homage to Popeye (as Bill Blackbeard said, "the first >arf, arf< Super-hero"), and after making his debut here he became part of the ever-expanding cast of supporting characters. He's also essentially the pre-Crisis version of Bibbo.

Billy Anders appears in this story, too. I neglected to mention him before, mainly because I never cared for the character. A little kid who was part Billy Batson and part Freddy Freeman, there was a story arc going on in the Superman title which had this blonde boy gaining the Man of Steel's powers and Superman having to imagine a lynx in order to become super. I didn't like it--yes, there were stories back then that I didn't like--I also didn't like the storyline that had Perry meeting some young mutants (who in a subsequent story would give him cigars that made him super). As for Strong, he got his powers from seaweed ("sauncha" laced with an alien element) not spinach.

21) # 428 (Oct. '73) "Whatever Happened to Superman?" story: Bates, 13 pages.

--not "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" (the final pre-Crisis Superman story by Alan Moore, Curt Swan, George Perez, and Kurt Schaffenberger) but probably part of the inspiration for that story. In this one, while still in prison Luthor has had a confederate on the outside launch a satellite which emits a powerful hypnotic beam--making everyone believe that Superman has not been active for the past ten years. Despite his powerful feats, no one sees Superman in action (their minds convince them that they're seeing something else like a mounted policeman's horse suddenly springing wings and taking flight).

24) #432 (Feb. '74) "Target of the Toy-Men!" story: Bates, 13 pages.
--You have to realize that in the sixties all the reprint 80 page giants published stories from mainly the fifties and the sixties--so most readers (myself being one) were limited to this contained view of the DC world. But in the early seventies, this policy was reversed (apparently the policy had been maintained because the forties golden age material was viewed as inferior in quality), and we now got to see a great deal of raw (and sometimes quality) material from the golden age. A reprint in one of those 100 page Super-Spectaculars (for 50c) was an eye-opener--it featured the golden-age Toy-Man. All we readers knew of the Toy-Man was the rather conventional cousin to the Prankster with his shortish hair, green suits, and ties. But this reprint showed a long-haired smock-wearing bohemian Toy-Man.

In Action 432, the original Toy-Man is in retirement, but returns when a new upstart Toy-Man tries to steal his thunder--and our original has the smock and the long hair (although his locks have turned white by now). This trend of bringing villains back to their raw roots would continue through the seventies, with the Toy-Man being one of the best examples.

Which leaves only the last of the twenty-five

twenty-five SWANDERSONs twenty-five

which was printed in the tabloid-size Amazing World of Superman--Metropolis Edition (1973)--which I mentioned earlier--in black and white with grey shading; and then in the tabloid-size Limited Collector's Edition C-31 (Oct-Nov. '74) in colour; and then in the Warner Books softcover, at closer to regular comic-book page size, Secret Origins of DC Super-Heroes (1976), also in colour...

25) "The Origin of Superman," layout: Carmine Infantino, pencils: Curt Swan, inks: Murphy Anderson, dialogue: E. Nelson Bridwell, 15 pages.
--essentially this story draws together all of the origins printed thusfar and weaves them together into one story. Many of the scenes and even the words are lifted from those previous origins, with some alterations or extrapolations here and there. But as the resident expert on Superman lore, Bridwell was certainly the man to pull all this stuff together (even though he's not credited for the "story" just the dialogue, and even much of that isn't his own invention). And Carmine Infantino on lay-outs (the then presiding publisher at National Periodical Publications)! to actually have Infantino, Swan, and Anderson all collaborating on one story was a Silver-Age fan's dream come true.

Quite a marvelous response by you to my inquiries about the Swanderson period. Your details and descriptiopns are very helpful in sparking my memories of not only the stories but also of my own favorites among your top 25 issues.

I have copied your list and checkmarked my faves. I happened to grab Action 400 almost by accident at a recent con, and I'll probably get to it this week.

If you're interested, I'll provide my Top Ten of Supes during the 60s, but off the top of my head so I'll probably forget some contenders. In no order...

SM 141 - Return to Krypton - probably my fave, truly ahead of it's time (FYI for collectors, I believe it was reprinted in Superman #232.)

149 - Death of Superman - the classic, a real sense of loss at the end, even though it's an imaginary story. (Reprinted in #193)

156 - Virus X - Swan/Klein at their best, don't know why (maybe the superior coloring?) but the art just stands out more so in this issue

158 - The Kandor story - great intrigue, Swan Kryptonscapes at their best (I just coined that term right here! Everybody use it twice a week!)

162 - Superman Red & Blue - just a fun wish fullfillment (Ever wonder what happened to Superman Yellow? Daredevil probably knows. But the Marvel bastard ain't talkin'!)

164 - Superman Vs. Luthor - mano y mano, the best "personal" battle between them, really felt the long time rivalry come to loggerheads.

167 - Luthor & Brainiac - their first team-up, great characterization and origin story, DC silver age at it's best

Action 300 - Superman Under A Red Sun - almost a wistful sci-fi tale (I recall there was a big goof at the ending; switched in midstream deus ex machinas.)

292 & 294 - Luthor kills a robot - an interesting morality tale, loved the covers

Superman Ann 4 - Villains of Space & Time - Okay, not original material, but the best 60s DC Annual by far for my money, and it also has the great eyecatching Legion feature (which I feel was decisive in establishing the Legion as a "real" group in the DC universe.)

Most of these stories involved Lex Luthor, truly the #2 character in Superman comics during the 60s.

Once again, thanks for you comprehensive top 25 list. I'll probably check it a couple times after I get some more of the issues.

In my own list of sixties stories would most definitely appear the three-part Action story of Superman flying to the end of time--stopped by the Time Trapper from returning to the present. As this is off the top of MY head I can't give issue numbers, but it was around 1968 I think...

I remember going to Keller's Drugs with my Dad and picking up this Action and groaning when I realized it was continued--I hated continued comics, hated hated them. I then got the conclusion--BUT, because drugstores were so unreliable for having every issue (which is why I so hated continued comics, because I rarely got to read the end of the story or sometimes the beginning!), I never got the middle part--because of all things this was a THREE parter and THEN I pretty much gave up on comics all together for a couple of years.

It was only years later that I actually did get that second part of the story.

The Galactic Golem

Superman # 248 (Feb. '72) "The Man Who Murdered the Earth!" 18 pages.

Superman # 258 (Nov. '72) "Fury of the Energy-Eater!" 16 pages.

story for both: Len Wein; art for both: Curt Swan & Murphy Anderson.

--I remember in the seventies reading a comment by Len Wein about how he doesn't write villains as totally evil. All his characters are characters and therefore full of the same emotions that you and I share. They do bad things, just as sometimes we do bad things, but not really for bad reasons--in their own moral universe they are true to their nature. This reminds me somewhat of the movie "Red," where the judge realizes that he cannot judge, because if he puts himself in the shoes of the accused then he does indeed put himself in those shoes and therefore can see no other choice being possible while being in those shoes.

Without too much elaboration, we understand this about Lex Luthor in the first story. Narrated from his point of view, his motivations seem reasonable. Luthor is indeed the greatest genius that the Earth might ever know. Superman and his power present problems for Luthor to solve. In attempting to solve these problems he creates his own monster (as with Frankenstein--a point he openly admits) and inadvertently destroys the world. Luthor is chastened by this catastrophic result--he is a moral man and never intended the Earth's doom.

I like that Luthor's narrative is grounded in reason. What bugs me about the overused first person in today's narratives is that it's rarely ever explained--and if you think about it too hard it doesn't seem at all plausible. Luthor in this story provides a record because he wishes that any alien lifeforms should understand how the catastrophe arrived so as they might solve it--and also by thinking it through, Lex hopes to possibly come up with his own solution.

I like this Lex. He is heroic in his own way. Moreover, we see him here in the lab-coat that he wore back in the early fifties. Len Wein seems to have given the character of Lex Luthor a lot of thought.

But I don't like the cheat of the story. The convenient fact that everyone in the world, but Lex (it would seem) was shunted off to another dimension, and then back again without any other after effects of such a shift.

We should remember that Len Wein was writing the first run of Swamp Thing tales around the time of these two Golem stories. Of course, ST is a golem, as is the Frankenstein monster (or "Spawn of Frankenstein" which was a back-up feature by Bernard Bailey over in the Phantom Stranger comic). The whole Jewish legend of the Golem may inform all of these stories. And then there also seems to be the influence of EC--Tales from the Crypt as well as Wierd Science.

Wein loves to set a mood and the first two pages of the second story do that with some poor nameless wanderer being pulled underground by the Golem, who takes his hat and coat, and pets his dog--but does the dog no harm.

Throughout this story we are treated to loopy turns of dialogue, sometimes outright funny or merely sardonic. Josh Coyle, floor director of the WGBS news, does not suffer fools gladly and probably thinks this Clark Kent is quite the fool. Even Superman has quite the smart mouth when bantering with the deadpan Golem.

The blokes at STAR don't come off as too inte