This page archives the text of the forum thread Superman in the Sixties which ran
from March 2002 to April 2003 on the now-defunct DC Comics message boards.



List of contributors:

bizarro brainiac zero .. Aldous .. India Ink .. Osgood Peabody .. GernotCarl .. U2 ..

garythebari .. Continental Op .. hsalf .. Mister Solo .. PhantomK .. Lee Semmens ..

Super Monkey .. Wayne1776



Superman in the Sixties is still being discussed at the SupermanFan forum.




Superman in the Sixties - forum - Page 1
Author Topic:   Superman in The Sixties


bizarro brainiac zero
Member posted March 25, 2002 03:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
I've been reading thru the Superman in the 70s topic, and I thought I'd start a topic for the 60s era Superman.

To start off, I'm copying my list from page 3 of the 70s topic with my Favorite Superman Stories of the 60s (posted under my prior user name The Time Trapper.)

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Top Ten Superman Stories of the 1960s (in no particular order)

SM 141 - Return to Krypton - probably my fave, truly ahead of it's time (FYI for collectors, I believe it was reprinted in Superman #232.)

149 - Death of Superman - the classic, a real sense of loss at the end, even though it's an imaginary story. (Reprinted in #193)

156 - Virus X - Swan/Klein at their best, don't know why (maybe the superior coloring?) but the art just stands out more so in this issue

158 - The Kandor story - great intrigue, Swan Kryptonscapes at their best

162 - Superman Red & Blue - just a fun wish fullfillment (Ever wonder what happened to Superman Yellow? Daredevil probably knows.)

164 - Superman Vs. Luthor - mano y mano, the best "personal" battle between them, really felt the long time rivalry come to loggerheads.

167 - Luthor & Brainiac - their first team-up, great characterization and origin story, DC silver age at it's best

Action 300 - Superman Under A Red Sun - almost a wistful sci-fi tale (I recall there was a big goof at the ending; switched in midstream deus ex machinas.)

292 & 294 - Luthor kills a robot - an interesting morality tale, loved the covers

Superman Ann 4 - Villains of Space & Time - Okay, not original material, but the best 60s DC Annual by far for my money, and it also has the great eyecatching Legion feature (which I feel was decisive in establishing the Legion as a "real" group in the DC universe.)

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Most of these stories involved Lex Luthor, truly the #2 character in Superman comics during the 60s.

Post your list!

I'll post later my top ten things I loved about Krypton.

If Swan and Boring are the top two supes artists of 60s, who's #3? Is there a #3?

.

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S.P.I.D.E.R. Agent: "Get away with it? I think we will! There is no good, no evil, only strength and cunning, and we have those! Ha ha!"

Dynamo: "FOO to you and your bunk philosophy!"

- T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents # 9, October, 1966

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Aldous
Member posted March 25, 2002 04:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
Superman in the Sixties

A great idea.

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bizarro brainiac zero
Member posted March 26, 2002 03:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
Some of my Favorite Things about Krypton

  • The Scarlet Jungle Is this a cool locale or what? Action 310 allowed Swan to realize his vision for Krypton's exotic tropical forest, providing some nice glimpses of it's classic red and purple flora. I believe some "patches" of the Jungle were shown in Kandor stories. Scarlet Jungle Fever was mentioned a few times in stories.

  • The Jewel Mountains Equally as fascinating as The Scarlet Jungle, The Jewel Mountains were even more realized in Action 310 with the scenes at Jax-ur's hideout in the mountains. The Jewel Mountains allowed DC's colorists to utilize the light pastel screens that so simply and convincingly conveyed the gigantic gemlike nature of the of the jagged peaks and trails of The
    Jewel Mountains.

  • Lyla Lerrol[/l] Lyla only had one real appearance, the classic Superman 141, "Superman's Return to Krypton," and yet she actually has some websites devoted to her! [She did have an faux appearance in SM 192, I believe, when a second Krypton appears; can't remember if the inhabitants were actually robots, aliens, or whatever.] She was the first blond that Kal got hot for, and it really seemed like they fell for each other. He always would pine after her in his daydreams for years to come. He should of married her on Krypton!

  • [i]The Bottle City of Kandor Next to the Phantom Zone, this is the most enduring
    Kryptonian lore in the mythos. The Kandor stories allowed the reader and Superman to return to Krypton without encountering all those pesky DC time travel problems. Three big Kandor Stories were the Nightwing/Flamebird stories - SM 158, JO 69, and WF 143. (Were there any other N/F stories in the sixties?)

    There was several recurring characters in Kandor, like Van-Zee (Kal's cousin,) Sylvia, Nor-Kan, and N/F's cool telepathic hound (name?,) and of course the Superman Emergency Squad, which I came to feel was used a little too often.

    Of the different depicted versions of the Bottle itself, I always enjoyed the earlier big and wide "bell" jar that I think was shown a few times in Action. You really had a sense with that very wide jar that there could be a miniature city inside.

    And then there was the whole deal about the cork and getting in and out of the bottle! DC went through several ideas trying to find something didn't sound too goody or present to many problems. There always had to be a few panels explaining the "new way."

  • The Winged OnesThese were the rarely seen but beautifully designed and drawn gentle white flying dragons of Krypton. I'm sure they were shown in Krypton Chronicles (last app?,) and in an issue of World's Finest (143?) and also I believe one issue of Superman.

    They just looked so majestic, graceful, and powerful. Too bad these weren't the version that came to Earth rather than those green "Flame-Dragons" from a couple of Superman apps (151? and one in the 140s.) I think there was a couple left alive in Kandor.[/list]

    Well, I left off the real biggies in case someone wants to reminisce about them - Jor-el & Lara, and The Phantom Zone. What other major Krypton Lore is left? Fire Falls. Gold Mountain. Kryptonopolis. The Science Council.
    Just some off the top of my head.

    Take your pick!

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  • bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 26, 2002 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Typo correction:

    Re: the cork: "DC went through several ideas trying to find something didn't sound too goofy or present to many problems."

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    India Ink
    Member posted March 26, 2002 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    I'm slowly, slowly filling out my sixties collection.

    I've discovered that good reading copies can be found at swap meets--for some of the less in demand issues that is. Fat chance ever finding a good copy of Superman 199.

    Luckily, even though torn and tattered, I do have a copy of 199 with cover. That's the ish with the first Superman & Flash race, and it's a nice issue, but I can't fathom why it is so far beyond the price of the issues surrounding it. Even well beyond the usual price for 200, which I got for a nice price in near mint condition on sale for not much cash back in January--my original copy is in pretty poor condition with a detached torn cover.

    So mostly in the last few months I've been getting better copies of the comics I already have or had from the sixties. Last weekend I managed to get Action 351, and 353 in good condition to go with my copy of 352 I got a couple of months. Now I bought and read 351 and 352 back in the sixties (my original copies of those are both missing covers now and in pretty poor condition), but I never did find 353.

    So I read all three this morning. This is the story of ZHA-VAM, and I never did know his origin until I read 353 this morning and all was revealed. Interesting that he's yet another one of those golem kind of characters--this time fashioned from the clay provided by Prometheus and given the powers of six gods and heroes on ancient Mount Olympus and sent forward through time to do battle with the upstart Superman.

    Not that I would put these issues forward as the best of Superman. I feel that the early sixties Superman is the best, but try finding good reading copies of those...prices are high on most books prior to 1966.

    I also recently got a so so copy of Superman 207 (I still have my original, but it's missing a cover) and this is a Giant. One of my favorite stories is reprinted in there. The story of Van-Zee and Sylvia in three parts. I gather this was first published in Lois Lane--but was it published over three issues? and in what issue or issues? Anyone with the info I need?

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted March 26, 2002 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    "The Super-Family of Steel" was originally published in Lois Lane #15 (Feb. 1960) and is credited to Edmond Hamilton and Kurt Schaffenberger.

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    India Ink
    Member posted March 26, 2002 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    Oh thank you Osgood. Now I know what issue to look for--though I suspect it's out of my price range.

    And Edmond Hamilton you say. Wow. I would have thought Jerry Siegel, Otto Binder, or Leo Dorfman. It's amazing how many great stories Hamilton wrote during this time period!

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    India Ink
    Member posted March 26, 2002 05:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    On the matter of artists, I think Al Plastino is worth a mention simply because he was always there providing art.

    He's sort of like what Irv Novick or Bob Brown were to the late sixties/early seventies Batman.

    Then, from an objective standpoint, although I never liked his version, you have to consider Ross Andru as really the artist of the late sixties Superman--doing work both in Superman/Action and in World's Finest.

    On the other hand, one should probably consider the whole Superman Family. For the whole Superman Family you have Kurt Schaffenberger. But you've also got John Forte, Jim Mooney, Pete Costanza...

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 26, 2002 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Inky, Plastino was the only real candidate that came to my mind regarding a possible #3 Supes artist in the sixties. He wasn't as talented as Swan or as stylish as Boring, and he did a fair amount of swiping, but still Plastino did a few key stories in the mythos, most in Action, IIRC.

    I.E., Action 292 & 294, the great Luthor Kills A Robot two-parter than reads like it was written by Hamilton and really provides a novel take on death and responsibilty. Also the classic Action 300, Superman Under A Red Sun. He was able to convey the desolation of the distant ravaged Earth.

    Can't recall others now, but there were a few more that weren't generic plots.

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    India Ink
    Member posted March 27, 2002 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    What I like about Plastino (other than his name--he should have been a superhero) is the way his art is neither Swan nor Boring yet fits in between both. And while I prefer Swan, I remember being sucked in by the emotion of the stories that Plastino drew. He seemed especially good at doing the romance kind of stories--the emotion of lost love.

    I have Action 294 but not 292--I'll have to give that story another look when I get home tonight.

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    Aldous
    Member posted March 27, 2002 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    Will you blokes knock it off? You're just making me wish I could get some of those 60s comics you're talking about.

    One story I do have is the Super-Menace one from 1960, drawn by the great Swan-Klein team, and written by Siegel.

    Yet another bit of tinkering with Kal-El's Earthward journey sees him have an encounter with an alien device which accidentally creates a duplicate of the baby, spaceship and all. We know where Kal the original landed, but the duplicate baby lands elsewhere and falls into the hands of gangsters Wolf & Bonnie.

    While Clark Kent is being raised to be law-abiding and generous, the duplicate Kal-El, seemingly possessing all the powers of the original, is raised by Wolf & Bonnie to be a super-crook. All the while, the kid thinks his gangster parents love him and are proud of him, but they secretly care nothing for him and are just manipulating him.

    As the Kal-El we know grows to adulthood, and becomes famous, his super-duplicate (who is immune to the effects of Kryptonite) grows up in secret, his "parents" fostering in him an intense hatred of, first, Superboy, then Superman. The adult duplicate can hardly contain himself, but Wolf insists he wait till Wolf himself gives the OK to attack Superman and reveal Super-Menace's existence.

    Wolf eventually makes a deal with a syndicate of crime lords to become their president if he has his Super-Menace son destroy Superman. They give the OK, and Wolf sends his "son" to attack Superman. For Super-Menace, it is the realisation of his life's ambition, to kill Superman for his "proud father".

    Once Super-Menace has left, Wolf boasts that he and Bonnie "pretended to love that freak" for their own selfish ends. The super-criminal, however, has looked back with his super senses and heard every word.

    Knowing his parents never loved him, but just used him, Super-Menace flies into an even greater rage, partly fuelled by intense jealousy at Clark's loving upbringing.

    Superman meets his super-duplicate and they do battle. At one point Superman notices, with x-ray vision, that his duplicate is not human, but a "force manifestation" -- an unearthly force manifested in human form. This bit of news devastates Super-Menace and intensifies his jealousy. He uses Kryptonite to bring Superman to death's door, but he can't bring himself to finish off the Man of Steel. Super-Menace is surprised to find he takes no pleasure from watching Superman die. "Maybe Wolf and Bonnie Derek didn't extinguish the last spark of decency in me..."

    In a stunning piece of reasoning, Super-Menace decides that if his parents lied about loving him, they could have lied about everything, including their justification for Superman's murder. He releases Superman from the Kryptonite trap and confronts his parents.

    "My life could've been a blessing, but you, with your rotten cunning, twisted it into... something terrible..."

    Superman, recovering from the Kryptonite, arrives in time to see Super-Menace abandon his human form and become pure energy -- the blast of force killing Wolf & Bonnie.

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    Aldous
    Member posted March 27, 2002 11:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    quote:
    Originally posted by India Ink:
    On the matter of artists, I think Al Plastino is worth a mention simply because he was always there providing art.

    He's sort of like what Irv Novick or Bob Brown were to the late sixties/early seventies Batman.

    Then, from an objective standpoint, although I never liked his version, you have to consider Ross Andru as really the artist of the late sixties Superman--doing work both in Superman/Action and in World's Finest.

    On the other hand, one should probably consider the whole Superman Family. For the whole Superman Family you have Kurt Schaffenberger. But you've also got John Forte, Jim Mooney, Pete Costanza...


    Ross Andru -- yeahhh!

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    GernotCarl
    Member posted March 27, 2002 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GernotCarl   Click Here to Email GernotCarl
    Some favorite 1960s Superman stories:

    Virus X:
    I'd read a few issues of this serial as a younster, and I LOVED the final chapter when all the world thought Superman dead, and the JLA's solution.

    "100 Years: Missing, Lost, Or Stolen!"
    I finally found this issue of Action after having read it years ago. Fun story, but DC ignored it right after its publication.

    "Exile"
    A group of alien robots get rid of all evil and natural disasters on Earth. Superman, feeling he is no longer needed, leaves Earth and settles on a red sun planet, presumably forever. I've always loved this 2-parter.

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    VISIT MY SUPERMAN PAGE: http://web.archive.org/web/20050221052246/http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/gernot0/PAGES/Superman.html Thanks! ;)

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    "General? Would you care to step outside?"

    ********************

    Robin: "Holy Oleo!"

    Catwoman: "I didn't know you could yodel."

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    "When Polly's in trouble, I am not slow! It's hip, hip, hip, and awaaaaay I go!"

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    "I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me, Superman!"
    --Homer J. Simpson

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    Aldous
    Member posted March 27, 2002 11:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    Superman vs. Super-Menace

    I forgot to make a point of mentioning one of the most bizarre props in any Superman story ever -- the little Lone Ranger-type burglar mask worn by Superman's duplicate.

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    Aldous
    Member posted March 27, 2002 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    On p. 4 of the story, Ma Kent is teaching baby Clark how to cross the street in a lawful manner.

    Narrative: "Off in Smallville, the real Kal-El is taught a proper respect for the rules of society."

    Ah, those were the days.

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    Aldous
    Member posted March 27, 2002 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    GernotCarl,

    I like your Superman page.

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    India Ink
    Member posted March 28, 2002 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    So I looked through Action 294 again last night, and I can see why bbz likes this story. Apparently Edmond Hamilton wrote this one, too! and I am struck by the absolute glee that comes through from the writer through the story and the character of Lex Luthor.

    Since the death of Leo Dorfman (in the mid-seventies) it doesn't seem to me like any writers have really felt happy about writing Lex Luthor. They've come at the character as a problem to be solved, and they've done this by side-stepping the Luthor character entirely and writing Lex as Victor von Doom, Ra's al Ghul, Professor Zoom, or the Kingpin. All of those are great characters but they're NOT Lex Luthor. And Lex Luthor should not be a rip-off of them.

    But in the sixties, when getting an assignment to write a Lex Luthor story, it's like the writers walked out of Mort's office with a spring in their step thinking to themselves--yahoo, I get to write about Lex Luthor!

    And they attack the character with absolute delight, dwelling upon his devious cleverness, showing off his evil brilliance. Maybe this is because most of them were science fiction writers. They were used to writing about characters with a brain in their head! Their Lex Luthor may be evil, but that doesn't stop him from being utterly charismatic in his machiavellian malevolence.

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 28, 2002 01:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    quote:
    Originally posted by Aldous:
    Superman vs. Super-Menace

    I forgot to make a point of mentioning one of the most bizarre props in any Superman story ever -- the little Lone Ranger-type burglar mask worn by Superman's duplicate.


    Gotta agree that domino mask was kinda strange, yet it remains as the "identifying icon" of the story.

    I never really considered if it was Klein who inked the book, but I guess he did. The line work is close enough and perhaps he used the brush a little more than in the middle years of 63 & 64. When I visualize Klein's work, I think of stories with more precise linework, like Virus X and the Luthor stories of those years.

    Now that I consider it, the brighter colorist's palette from those years is linked in mind with Klein's cleaner lines, so the darker hues of the earlier Super-Menace story (at least in the original) probably obstructed my recognition of Klein's work.

    I guess I just don't associate Klein with this earlier period. Anybody know of his earliest collaboration with Swan? Any examples of Klein collaborations with other DC artists?

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    S.P.I.D.E.R. Agent: "Get away with it? I think we will! There is no good, no evil, only strength and cunning, and we have those! Ha ha!"

    Dynamo: "FOO to you and your bunk philosophy!"

    - T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents # 9, October, 1966

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    GernotCarl
    Member posted March 28, 2002 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GernotCarl   Click Here to Email GernotCarl
    Thanks, Aldous!

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    Aldous
    Member posted March 28, 2002 05:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    quote:
    India Ink wrote:
    Then, from an objective standpoint, although I never liked his version, you have to consider Ross Andru as really the artist of the late sixties Superman--doing work both in Superman/Action and in World's Finest.

    Hmm, yes. I'm enthusiastic about the work of Ross Andru, but I don't really have all that many stories of Superman where he's the artist.

    I seem to recall he did a few Rose and the Thorn stories. I'd have to check back through my collection to find the stuff. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

    Anyway, I posted this to say, after re-reading your post, India, that my regard for Ross Andru does not come from his work on Superman. When I was a youngster, I started to get The Amazing Spider-Man, which I absolutely loved -- and, at the time, Len Wein was the editor and writer, and the artist was Ross Andru. (The inker was Mike Esposito.)

    So I'll always have a soft spot for this artist....

    So...

    This leads me to say, I find it very hard to be objective about the abilities of an artist. If I loved the comic books as a kid, I tend to always view that artist's work through rose-coloured glasses. I guess I don't analyse and evaluate the pros and cons of artists' technical abilities the way a lot of you guys do.

    quote:
    bbzero wrote:
    The line work is close enough and perhaps he used the brush a little more than in the middle years of 63 & 64. When I visualize Klein's work, I think of stories with more precise linework, like Virus X and the Luthor stories of those years.

    Now that I consider it, the brighter colorist's palette from those years is linked in mind with Klein's cleaner lines, so the darker hues of the earlier Super-Menace story (at least in the original) probably obstructed my recognition of Klein's work.


    This is an excellent analysis of the "technical" aspects of the art. All I can say about the art in "Super-Menace" is that it's a little sloppy, perhaps. Maybe I'd call it a bit "rushed". But an opinion concerning technique (like, 'here he used a brush more') is beyond me.

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 28, 2002 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Aldous, having been an artist for many years in my callow youth, I can speak with some pomposity on it!

    Basically the visual difference between pen and brush inking is the variable width of the line. Pens maintain an even linework, with the same width throughout, while a brush, being tapered, allows the artist to play with the stroke pressure creating a range of line width from thin to heavy, including all the possible tapered lines between them.

    [Most inkers use both pen and brush, but examples of strong skilled pen inkers are Terry Austin and Barry Windsor-Smith, with strong skilled brush inkers being Russ Manning and Steve Rude.]

    This is the usual orientation of pen & brush work in commercial art. However as you move into fine arts or experimental commercial work, that distinction loses validity. Examples: 1) Asian and other brushes with long thin hairs can produce very thin yet long, even sweeping lines with little width change. 2) There are a large variety of pen nibs and quills that allow the user to adjust pressure on their short strokes to get small precise tapering, often used in comics to achieve "feathering."

    This is an ancient drawing technique and what artists like Jerry Ordway, Murphy Anderson, and actually nearly everybody use somewhat to give depth to primarily human forms, but other shapes as well. It's done with tiny tapering strokes along the edge of limbs, etc, to suggest small shadows falling away on curved forms.

    Klein used it moderately, not as much as contemporaries Anderson or Wood, but he went to it more when it appears he set aside some brushes in mid-60s. Trying to recall his brief later period at Marvel in '68, '69?, after DC booted a lot of artists, it seems to me that he switched to mostly brushwork on the Avengers, and didn't use pens that much, but I'm kinda guessin here long after the fact, as I no longer have those issues.

    There are several fans who have devoted much more time than I to analyzing Swan and his inkers and may be able to offer greater details on Klein's "inking-periods." I'd like to hear their views, deductions, and any facts found.

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 29, 2002 07:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Well, enough of my inside-baseball stuff on inking! Let's get back to Supes in ths '60s!

    What are other posters' fave '60s Supes Tales?

    Did everybody else hate when a great Supes story was split into two issues in Action when they should have just put it into one issue of Superman?! Three come to mind. Aforementioned 292 & 294 (Luthor kills a robot,) 311 & 312 (# ?, Superman, King of Earth,) and 318 & 319 (again # ?, Superman kills Luthor.) Any notable others?

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    GernotCarl
    Member posted March 29, 2002 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GernotCarl   Click Here to Email GernotCarl
    When I was a little boy, I'd noticed that trend in DC Comics. Superman USUALLY had self-contained stories, and Action had the continued stories. Was that some sort of editorial edict, or was it just coincidence?

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 29, 2002 11:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    GC, probably because stories were moved around with Superman family titles (i.e. a Superman story might end up eventually in Jimmy Olsen, like I believe was the case with the Kandor story in JO 69,) it's likely the two-parters in Action were originally slotted as one story for Superman (which wasn't anthological and therefore could feature longer stories,) and were split into two Action issues in last minute scheduling changes. Sometimes that may have entailed adding or deleting some pages to match the alotted space.

    Speaking of the whole Superman family of titles, I just compiled an brief index of the issue numbers range of these titles for the 1960s.

    The first issues range is the actual chronological match: Jan or Feb 1960 issue to Nov or Dec 1969 issue. The second issues range is my subjective "thematic" range of the 1960s for the Superman family titles.

    Your mileage may disagree.

    ACTION - 260-383 - 242 (1st Brainiac) - 392 (Last Legion)

    ADVENTURE - 268-387 - 247 (1st Legion) - 380 (Last Legion; Supergirl's feature doesn't end till 424, too far into 70s.)

    JIMMY OLSEN - 42-125 - 31 (1st Elastic Lad) - 132 (Last Pre-Kirby issue)

    LOIS LANE - 14-97 - 1 (might as well make it #1) - 103 (Last Pre-Rose & Thorn issue)

    SUPERBOY - 78-161 - 68 (1st Bizarro) - 171 (Last Pre-Legion transfer issue)

    SUPERMAN - 134-221 - 123 (Pre-Supergirl Tryout) - 232 (Last Pre-Kryptonite "No More")

    WORLD'S FINEST 107-190 - 100 (Kandor story) - 197 (Last Superman/Batman team-up)

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    U2
    Member posted March 30, 2002 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for U2   Click Here to Email U2
    I just read a bunch of stories from Superman in the Sixties while I was at Borders a few days ago, and man, I have to get me this. I loved the original Return to Krypton (the one with the experimental Supergirl, and Superman has to "mate" his parents instead of meet them), but this one was soo much better. BBZ was right, this story was very much ahead of its time.

    But the thing that really struck me was Luthor in it. I think the name of the story is something like "Superman and Luthor's Super-Duel" or something like that. Luthor and Superman fight on an alien planet, but Luthor decides to throw the fight to help out an alien culture. This got me thinking about why I don't like the current Luthor. The old Luthor if things had gone differently in Smallville might have ended up being one of the good guys. On occasion he even was a good guy, not because it benefited him, but because it helped others. The current Luthor only does things out of greed, and never has to actually sacrifice or think about any of his decisions (remember, he didn't even care that he sold his daughter to Brainiac 13).

    Anyway, I really liked this volume, especially the Giant Turtle Boy.

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    Superman in the Sixties - forum - Page 2
    Author Topic:   Superman in The Sixties


    India Ink
    Member posted March 30, 2002 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    U2, that Super-Duel story is my most favourite story as I've said countless times.

    Most of my favourites sixties Superman stories are from the early sixties, yet I read them when reprinted in the late sixties or early seventies ("The Showdown Between Luthor and Superman" was reprinted in Superman 238, a 64 page Giant--although I did buy the original issue just a couple months ago and now have it in my collection! yahoo!).

    Same with the Kandor stories bbz has mentioned (reprinted in a Jimmy Olsen Giant in the early seventies), and the Van-Zee/Sylvia story I mentioned (reprinted in the late sixties). And the Luthor/Brainiac story (reprinted in Superman 245, a Super-Spectacular, in the early seventies--although I also got a copy of the original, 167, around the same time).

    One of my favourite Supergirl stories is actually a Jimmy Olsen imaginary story, but it was reprinted as a "Hall of Fame Classic" Supergirl story in the back of Action, issues 351 & 352, in 1967, when I read it. It tells of the marriage of Jimmy and Linda--and it has a Donna Reed/Shelley Fabares feeling about it, with a touch of Bewitched. I remember falling in love with Linda Lee Danvers Olsen when I read that story as a little boy, and I'm disposed to feel the same way now. Probably because of the way Swan and Klein drew her. In fact, Linda Danvers has always seemed prettier to me than Kara Zor-El--probably because of that story.

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    India Ink
    Member posted March 30, 2002 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    Jimmy Olsen No. 57 (Dec 1961)

    "Jimmy Olsen Marries Supergirl (2-parts)" JS-CS-SK (r: SF 181, AC 251)

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    India Ink
    Member posted March 30, 2002 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    I cut n pasted the above from this link:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004139/http://plaza.powersurfr.com/super_heroes/silverage/index.htm

    And if I read the credit abbreviations right Jerry Siegel wrote the story, with Stan Kaye inking Curt Swan, not George Klein. But it looks like Klein to me.

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 30, 2002 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    U2, actually the Krypton story you mention is a diferent story than the one I referred to. I love 'em both though. The one you mention is one part of the three part "Three Totem Wishes" story (my naming) of Superman #123 (with rare but great Dick Sprang Superman art. He did many early Superman/Batman team-ups in World's Finest.)

    The "Return to Krypton" story I refer to is Superman #141, a three part story solely featuring and titled "Superman's Return to Krypton" (which introduces Supes love interest Lyla Lerrol.) It was reprinted in the giant-sized Superman #232 (if ya find a good grade copy, it may run ya $5-7,) and a few times elsewhere perhaps. I imagine it has been reprinted in some DC HC in the last decade, but I don't which. Any help anyone?

    The Luthor story you cite is from Superman #164, and is probably my fave Luthor story, but there are several from this period. Most definately I agree: to me the '60s Luthor was the best interpretation ever done.

    He was a tragic human character, sometimes even quasi-heroic as he was with the people of Lexor. He wasn't Evil Incarnate as is the current version. He was a flawed, damaged, but brilliant man in the '60s, and as #164 shows, not afraid in the slightest of Superman, really eager and willing to duke it out with him on equal terms, even if his was a poor loser at the end of the fight.

    Lex Luthor should NEVER have become The Kingpin. Shows you the banal archetypal reasoning of some "writers" (i.e. certain comic artists): both are bald non-superpowered foes; ergo they must and should be the same.

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 30, 2002 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    India, reading your comments on Jimmy and Supergirl reminds of a story that may have been one of the earliest DCs I bought, but I can only remember one scene from it. I think I was able to identify it in the late '80s, but I have forgotten the info.

    It took place when Supergirl's identity was still kept secret by Superman, with her being his "secret weapon." It's probably from a Jimmy Olsen story, not Supergirl, as my image memory seems to be Swan art, not Mooney.

    Anyway, in the story, Jimmy has gone blind and Supergirl tries to help him. She tells him that she's Supergirl - Superman's cousin (and possibly that she's his secret weapon.) He doesn't believe her. So, I believe, much of the story is her trying to convince him (typical Weisinger plot.) The vague image that sticks in my mind is that (I believe) she intially told him while the were both standing on a bridge. That image stands out (and it seems the bridge was yellow, but that's iffy.)

    That's all I can recall, but my impression has been that this might be an "incidental" DC purchase by me somewhat earlier than when I recall becoming interested in them in Summer 1961.

    The main plot points are that Jimmy was blinded and that Supergirl was trying to get him to believe she really existed.

    Does this plot or bridge scene ring any bells out there? Anybody got a guess or lead on the comic and issue #?

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 30, 2002 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    To be clear, in this early "secret weapon" period of Supergirl's existence, not even Jimmy knew she existed, so that's why he was sceptical when this unknown girl (he was blind and couldn't see her costume or power displays,) told him she was really a Super-Girl.

    That Jimmy... Whatya gonna do with a kid like that?

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted March 30, 2002 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    bizarro, the story you're referring to is "Jimmy Olsen, Supergirl's Pal" from Jimmy Olsen #40 (Oct. 1959), which I believe is the first appearance Supergirl made outside of Action Comics. In fact, I was disappointed that DC opted to skip over this story in the compilation of the recent Supergirl Archives, as well as some other gems from this era, such as "Superboy Meets Supergirl" from Superboy #80 and "Jimmy Olsen, Orphan" from Jimmy Olsen #46.

    In the latter story, Jimmy loses his memory and his ID and is actually consigned to the Midvale orphanage where he naturally meets up with Linda Lee!

    Supergirl turned up rather frequently throughout the Weisinger line during this period, and it's a shame they apparently made the decision to only archive the Action stories.

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted March 30, 2002 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    Here's a more complete synopsis of the story you're looking for, courtesy of the DarkMark index:

    Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen No. 40
    October 1959
    Story: "Jimmy Olsen, Supergirl's Pal" (9 pages)
    Editor: Mort Weisinger
    Writer: Otto Binder?
    Penciller: Curt Swan
    Inker: George Klein
    Feature Character: Jimmy Olsen
    GS: Superman, Supergirl (between ACTION COMICS #256 / 257; origin retold in flashback)
    Cameo: Zor-El, Allura (flashback)
    Villains: "Big Con" Colby, Thora (first and only appearance for both)
    Synopsis: When Jimmy Olsen threatens to expose phony acts at Colonel Colby's sideshow, he accidentally blinds himself with tear gas from his trophy case. Colby dumps Olsen in the desert,
    and Jimmy activates his signal watch. Since Superman is at the center of the Earth on a mission , Supergirl (whose existence is a secret) answers the summons. But, try as she may, Supergirl
    cannot convince the skeptical Olsen that she has super-powers. Olsen believes her to be Colby's strong-girl Thora. Finally, Supergirl sees Superman returning to Earth's surface, reactivates Jimmy's signal-watch to summon him, and flies away. Superman exposes Colby and takes him to jail. Jimmy, telling Superman how Colby tried to make him believe there was a Supergirl, breaks
    down laughing.

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    India Ink
    Member posted March 30, 2002 11:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    Hm, I thought I had this story...I was flipping through some Actions this morning and there was one with Jimmy and Supergirl, but I just noted it, I didn't give it a read. However, the artwork wasn't Swan, so far as I could tell, so it may be another one.

    As for "Jimmy Olsen Marries Supergirl," some things struck me when I read it this past week--things I wouldn't have noticed back when I was a kid.

    Back when I was a kid I had no idea how old Linda was supposed to be. But I would judge that when the story was first printed she was supposed to be sixteen. While Jimmy was supposed to be? an indeterminant age I guess, but somewhere in his early twenties I imagine. Now the age difference isn't huge, but given their positions in life, it does seem like Jimmy is robbing the cradle. (Of course Supergirl herself was sometimes portrayed as being half in love with her own much older cousin.)

    As if tit for tat, Lucy Lane ends up with a pilot who looks old enough to be her father.

    And while Jimmy is the older one, he's an idiot, whereas Linda is mature and intelligent for all her youth. Why Jimmy is willing to risk his marriage just because Supergirl happens to think he's cute is beyond me. Oh sure, it turns out Supergirl IS Linda, but hormonally challenged Olsen didn't know that!

    I think Jerry Siegel may have also been inspired by those Bobby Darin and Sandra Dee movies or by the real life couple. Anyway I'm sure this is part of why I loved the imaginary story--as a kid I loved to watch those Darin & Dee movies on TV, and I still love them and probably even have a higher opinion of Bobby Darin now then I did then. Not that Jimmy deserved to shine Bobby's shoes.

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 31, 2002 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Mr. Peabody, thanks for providing that issue identification! Wow - Jimmy Olsen # 40, Oct, 1959. I'll go hunt down the cover in the web.

    Now I have to figure out if I bought it new or picked it up used somewhere months later, either which supports this notion I have that I started reading DC comics perhaps one or two years earlier than I generally assumed (1961,) but was too young to have formed lasting memories about them, and relatedly didn't save them for any appreciable time that would reinforce any such memories.

    My logical mind says that this never happened, but too many "charged" snippets of comic memories and images have surfaced over the years to be accounted for by later readings when reason, or adolescent facsimilies, filtered most consciousness. They're vague, but clearly deeper than early adolescence.

    Having collected comics for at least 41 years, it's become mildly important to determine when I really began reading them. And actually starting in the calendar 1950s rather than the 1960s, is a "coolness" quota that perhaps only Silver Agers can appreciate!

    India, I always felt that Jimmy was only a couple years older than Supergirl, maybe 18 and 16 respectively. Yet, oddly, that notion only seems "valid" when I think of them in stories together, otherwise in her stories alone I always thought she was around 14. Perhaps you're right, it's the disparities in their maturities that brings their apparent ages closer. Unfortunately, too often true in the real world.

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted March 31, 2002 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    Bizarro, here's a nice index site I found that has the cover. Since the Supergirl story was the 2nd one in the issue, it's unfortunately not the cover feature, but maybe it'll spark your memory.
    http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004139/http://www.dcindexes.com/indexes/jimmy/index.htm

    It was also reprinted in Action #343 (Nov. 1966), as a fill-in for the Supergirl back-up story, so that may also be where you or India Ink saw this story.

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted March 31, 2002 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Thanks, Osgood. I don't specifically associate the cover with the story, but I do "recall" the cover as I've seen most of the mid-50s & up Supes comic-family covers over the years, especially having been a comics mail order dealer in the 70s.

    Thanks also for the reprint info. I'll check around for #343 at local shops. I'm pretty sure that reprint didn't generate the memory because by 1966 I had been a full blown "serious" collector for five years. No, I really think I got it new in 1959 or recently afterward from a neighborhood friend or some store that may have had "a pile o' comics" they were selling.

    Yeah, some old retail stores and shops used to do that back then. I try not to think about how many comics I must have passed over back then, especially how many copies of Adventure 247.

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    India Ink
    Member posted April 01, 2002 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    quote:
    Originally posted by India Ink:
    Hm, I thought I had this story...I was flipping through some Actions this morning and there was one with Jimmy and Supergirl, but I just noted it, I didn't give it a read. However, the artwork wasn't Swan, so far as I could tell, so it may be another one.

    Actually it was the story originally from Jimmy Olsen, reprinted as a Supergirl "Hall of Fame Classic" in Action Comics no. 343 from 1966. And I guess the art is Curt Swan, but not any Swan art I'm familiar with--being as, I gather, this was inked by John Forte who gives a different look to Curt's work.


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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted April 01, 2002 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Changing subjects, something I've not seen before is an index of Brainiac's early appearances. So lets put together a list.

    Brainiac's first app, of course, is Action 242 - 7/58 (as well as first app of Kandor.)

    Two other apps come to mind. Because Brainiac makes no cover app, Lois Lane 17, 5/60, ("Lana Lang, Superwoman,") is not widely known as a Brianiac app. Is it Brainiac's second appearance? The other is well-known because he makes a cover appearance - Action 280, 9/61 (also with the minaturized Supes and friends on cover, and guest-starring Congorilla.)

    What other pre-1963 Brainiac appearances are ther?

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted April 01, 2002 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    You're dead on as far as the first 2 Brainiac appearances.

    3rd appearance: "The Menace of Red-Green Kryptonite" from Action #275 (April 1961) by Jerry Coleman and Wayne Boring. Exposure to a hybrid red/green K Brainiac concoction causes Superman to grow a 3rd eye on the back of his head (I kid you not!).

    4th appearance: "Brainiac�s Super-Revenge" from Action #280 (Sept. 1961) by Jerry Siegel, Curt Swan, and Stan Kaye. Superman and his friends are shrunk by Brainiac, but Superman is able to turn the tables with a little help from Congo Bill and Congorilla!

    That's it - his next appearance would be in 1963, in a flashback "Superbaby" story in Superboy #80 entitled "The Lair of Brainiac" which relates how Brainiac kidnapped the infant Kal-El from Krypton!

    It wasn't until 1964 that Brainiac really vaulted into the "A-List" of Superman foes with the classic team-up with Luthor in Superman #167.

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted April 01, 2002 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Osgood, being a Legion fan I believe I recall another appearance, "technically" his 4th appearance. The Supergirl story in Action 276, which introduces Brainiac 5, has a few panels flashback of Brainiac (the original "thin" version from Act 242.)

    Also as a Legion fan, I know well that many Superman characters' early appearances are littered with such "do-we-or-don't-we-count-'em" cameos. One thing you say for Marvel, they really didn't do that many cameo panels in the early days.

    It is interesting to note that Brainiac (#1) had only appeared three times before Brainiac 5 was introduced as a love interest for Supergirl. It just adds further credence to the view I expressed last year at the end of our Grand Appearances Index over on the old Legion board. [It was a group effort index of all Legionnaires' appearances in Legion series' issues. (More specifically just a grand totaling/scoring of all the appearances with some weight given to starring and featured roles.]

    Brainiac 5 was the overwhelming "winner," with nearly 20% more points than second place finisher (who I believe was Chameleon Boy.) Really, Brainiac 5 blew every else out of the water.

    My statement upon the final tabulation was that Brainiac 5 probably was the most well-known and often used of all the different Brainiac versions over the years (the main other two "versions" being the robot Brainiac and Vril Dox of L.E.G.I.O.N.)

    In fact, I stated then and still believe that Brainiac 5 has had more appearances than all other Brainiac versions combined, and probably has had greater influence on the DC mythos than any other Brainiac.

    Like I said, I'm a Legion fan.

    Anyway, so you're saying there were no Brainiac apps in 1962. Well, maybe Brainiac 5's repeated apps in Supergirl and a few Legion guest apps actually kept the name out there to picked as the villain to be teamed-up with Luthor. Like I said, to my mind, Brainiac 5 has had the most influence.

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    Aldous
    Member posted April 02, 2002 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    If we keep our minds on the pre-Crisis DC realm for a moment -- who, exactly, was Brainiac 5?

    I seem to recall he was introduced as a descendant of the original Brainiac before it was decided that Brainiac was an android.

    How was this resolved? I don't think I have the answer in my comic collection. Or, if it's there, I've forgotten about it.

    Who, essentially, was Brainiac 5?

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted April 02, 2002 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Aldous, even though I'm a Legion fan, the history of the Brainiacs will take a little time to explain. So I'm going to defer to more diligent DC historians than I out there to clue ya in. If nobody steps up, I'll come back and try to recall all of it and lay it out for ya.

    Or maybe somebody knows a great website with the relevant history of the Brainiacs?

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    Aldous
    Member posted April 02, 2002 04:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    quote:
    Originally posted by bizarro brainiac zero:
    Aldous, even though I'm a Legion fan, the history of the Brainiacs will take a little time to explain. So I'm going to defer to more diligent DC historians than I out there to clue ya in. If nobody steps up, I'll come back and try to recall all of it and lay it out for ya.

    Or maybe somebody knows a great website with the relevant history of the Brainiacs?


    Thanks, bbzero!

    Now, where's Mr Bridwell when we need him...?

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted April 02, 2002 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    quote:
    Originally posted by bizarro brainiac zero:

    Or maybe somebody knows a great website with the relevant history of the Brainiacs?

    Ask, and ye shall receive!
    http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004139/http://plaza.powersurfr.com/legion_headquarters/rollcall/b5.htm

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    India Ink
    Member posted April 02, 2002 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    The important part of that link that relates to the query from Aldous:

    "Known Relatives: Querl was orphaned at a young age (AD 356). Kajz Dox (father, deceased). Pran Dox (grandfather, deceased), Vril Dox (great grandfather, deceased)."

    Brainiac was given a Coluan young man to accompany him, to pose as "Brainiac II," to back up the masquerade of Brainiac as a real live humanoid, and not an android--but the young man escaped from Brainiac and led the Coluan revolt against their computer masters. I think this young man (Vril Dox) even had a "II" tatooed on his palm. So Querl named himself after his heroic great grandfather, calling himself "Brainiac 5." (Over a thousand year period there were only four generations--they were a long-lived family.)

    But I want to know about Koko! I'm serious. My only exposure to Action 242 is the few panels reprinted in the Great Superman Book (encyclopedia), which show the entertaining interaction between Brainiac and his pet space monkey.

    I like all the Koko appearances that I've seen, but somewhere along the way the cute white creature disappears from the Superman stories. Does anyone have a Koko index?

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted April 02, 2002 08:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Good job, Osgood and India! I think Aldous can get the lowdown on Brainiac 5 and his somewhat convoluted ancestory from all that great info.

    I'd be amazed if there's a Koko site anywhere. India, you do know they brought back Koko as a "pet" of sorts for Brainiac 5 for a few recent years? I think Koko may have become attached to Brainiac 5 after the Legion fought the original Brainiac in Showcase when some of them where trapped in the 20th century a few years ago, and then Brainiac 5 brought Koko back home to the 31st century. I guessing a little on that rebooted Koko history!.

    I may be a space monkey, but doesn't mean I keep track of 'em!

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted April 02, 2002 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    I'm pretty sure Koko was left behind when Brainiac graduated to deadly nemesis status in the aforementioned Luthor team-up. After all, you wouldn't see villains like Luthor traipsing around with a monkey sidekick - not good for the image!


    Of all the Weisinger innovations introduced in the '58-'59 "renaissance", I've always been most intrigued by the evolution of the bottled city of Kandor. The writers seem to grab on to this concept immediately - there were no less than 5 Kandor appearances in the '50s alone:

    "The Super-Duel in Space" from Action #242 (Jul. 1958) by Otto Binder and Al Plastino. The original story of Kandor's rescue from Brainiac.

    "The Lady and the Lion" from Action #243 (Aug. 1958) by Otto Binder and Wayne Boring. In this story, Superman is transformed by Circe into a lion, and finds the cure in a Kandorian text book!

    "The Shrinking Superman" from Action #245 (Oct. 1958) by ? and Wayne Boring (my guess is Binder again). An evil double from Kandor takes Superman's place and even succeeds in marrying Lois!

    "The Dictator of Krypton City" from World's Finest 100 (Mar. 1959) by Bill Finger, Dick Sprang, and Stan Kaye. Reprinted in the recent WF Archives volume 2, Kandor is referred to as "Krypton City" in this tale (remember WF was edited by Schiff at the time, so there may have been a lack of coordination here), and its residents as "Kryptonites" !!! This is a great story, with Luthor infiltrating the Fortress, and then Kandor, and taking it by force from its peaceful inhabitants.

    "The War Between Superman and Jimmy Olsen" from Action #253 by Alvin Schwartz, Curt Swan, and George Klein. This time, an evil Jimmy Olsen look-alike escapes from Kandor to wreak havoc. They were just chock-full of doppelgangers, weren't they - and we haven't even gotten to Van-Zee yet!

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    Aldous
    Member posted April 04, 2002 04:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    quote:
    Originally posted by Osgood Peabody:
    Ask, and ye shall receive!
    http://web.archive.org/web/20050219004139/http://plaza.powersurfr.com/legion_headquarters/rollcall/b5.htm

    Thanks, O.P.

    That's just what I needed!

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted April 04, 2002 04:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    Well, I went to the comic store to get the new stuff and like a big donkey I forgot about the Easter delay, so I remembered to look in the back issue bins and I found a copy of Action #343 for a buck! And it's in decent shape, a little tear on the cover. It was a bit of synchronicity finding it because there were only about ten issues between 300-400, and the rest were priced at $5 - $9. I'll be reading it shortly before bed. I noticed the bridge scene!

    Osgood, I do recall that Kandor was in a couple issues right after 242, but didn't show up again for a year later, in of all places World's Finest (DC did that a lot, didn't they.)

    You know that reminds me of a former favorite pastime that's shared by a lot of comics fans, if not all - imaging team-ups or meetings between characters that never happened.

    I've wondered about Mon-el's Phantom Zone period in '61 & '62 (before the Legion liberated him,) where he showed up in all the Superman family titles. Except World's Finest. I've imagined him in WF meeting Batman and Robin, as drawn by Swan, in probably what would have been Batman's first encounter with the Phantom Zone. If the new Legion feature in Adventure had been delayed six months, Mon-el probably would have met Batman in WF. He probably would have also met Bizarro and other Superman mainstays. Who else? Kandorians? Or did he?

    Too bad villains never really crossed over in DC Silver Age books as they did at Marvel. It would have been fun to see Luthor and Batman go at it back then, or say Superman race Professor Zoom.

    Lotta what-if's in comics. They could even make a comic book called that.

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    Superman in the Sixties - forum - Page 3
    Author Topic:   Superman in The Sixties


    Aldous
    Member posted April 04, 2002 04:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    quote:
    Posted by India Ink:
    But I want to know about Koko! I'm serious. My only exposure to Action 242 is the few panels reprinted in the Great Superman Book (encyclopedia), which show the entertaining interaction between Brainiac and his pet space monkey.

    I could do one of my patented reviews of the story for you, India, with all due reverence given to the amazing Koko!

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    Aldous
    Member posted April 04, 2002 03:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    quote:
    Posted by Osgood Peabody:
    "The Lady and the Lion" from Action #243 (Aug. 1958) by Otto Binder and Wayne Boring. In this story, Superman is transformed by Circe into a lion, and finds the cure in a Kandorian text book!

    I really like that story.

    "Yes, Superman has turned into a lion, the animal he most resembles... because of his lion's heart and strength..."

    The whole story has a real nobility to it. Lois Lane is in top form -- she never showed greater compassion or true unselfish love for Superman.

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted April 04, 2002 09:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    Yes - and it's a shame these early Weisinger era stories haven't seen the light of day in what - 40 years? I know some of them, like the 1st Brainiac story and the Circe story were reprinted in the first few Superman annuals in the early '60s, but not since then, I believe.

    When they get around to doing a Superman in the Fifties collection, maybe they'll finally get their due.

    Over on the Archives board, I've been campaigning for a Silver Age Action Comics archive line, that would start with the landmark "Super-Key to Fort Superman" from Action #241. After all, why should we have to wait for them to slog through another 15 years worth of stories to get to the good stuff!

    Here's the link to that thread - feel free to hop on the bandwagon:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20050219003622/http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/files/Forum21/HTML/000576.html

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    India Ink
    Member posted April 04, 2002 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    All hail Eterno!

    So, bbz, are you saying that Koko appeared in the post-ZH Legion? I haven't followed those stories, so I'm outa the loop. But the thought that Koko might still exist in the new continuity brings a warm glow to my heart. And here I thought that the cold continuity of the current DC Comics had no place for whimsy.

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    bizarro brainiac zero
    Member posted April 05, 2002 03:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bizarro brainiac zero
    India, well, Koko was around recently for about two years and then left to apparently be with his space monkey people. Not kidding. I'm guessing on issues, but the central point would be when the Legionnaires stranded in the 20th century return to the 30th which happens in Legion of S-H #100 and after that Legion and Legionnaires (two different books) start interconnecting stories again.)

    I don't have the issues handy, but I'm guessing Koko's around for at least another year, maybe year and half, but of course there's several issues where he's not shown. You should still be able to get any of these issues at .50 to $1 in some stores, that is unless back issues jump up because of the increasing popularity of Legion. If Legion wins the Harvey award for best new series, who knows.

    Osgood, though I've only bought one Archive Edition (Legion Vol. #1) because of my "sparse" economics of recent years, I likewise have felt for a while that the Silver Age editions should be started NOW for several reasons. Uppermost being perhaps that those that most want to read and buy them may not give a damn in 15 years. DC needs to set Silver Age demarcation issues for the all the Silver Age titles and start the "Archiving" of The DC Silver Age NOW.

    Bluntly, who knows what's gonna happen in 15 years. Not to be pessimistic, but there's a not unreasonable possibility that there may not be any market for them in 15 years, and worse case, with all the non-stop growing entertainment competition, there may not be sufficently healthy comic industry to support such impressive and costly projects, by any publisher.

    Let's get the DC Silver Age out in Archives NOW so this essential part of an American genre and art is published in a lasting durable form.

    Because, again bluntly, I don't care what protection you use, most of our Silver Age collections aren't gonna make it past another thirty, forty years. Remember, mylars and like only came on the scene after the cheap pulp paper of '60s comics had been exposed to the elements for ten-fifteen years. The clock's ticking on our collections and the viability on "Archiving" The DC Silver Age.

    Osgood, I'll copy the above arguments for your topic over on the Archives Board.

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted April 05, 2002 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    I appreciate the support!

    I'm encouraged by the fact that 13 of the 16 stories in the proposed Silver Age Action collection have already been reprinted, so reproduction costs should be minimal.

    To wit:

    241 -(1st Fortress of Solitude) - numerous times, 1st in Superman Annual 1, most recently in [i]The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told[i]
    242 - (1st Brainiac & Kandor) - at least twice - Superman Annual 2 & Superman 217
    243 - Superman Annual 3
    244 - Superman 187
    247 - Superman 193
    249 - 80-Page Giant 11 (all-Luthor collection)
    250 - Superman 183
    251 - (1st imaginary tale) - Superman Annual 3
    252 - (1st Metallo) - Superman Annual 3
    253 - 80-Page Giant 2 (Jimmy Olsen collection)
    254/255 - (1st Adult Bizarro) - 80-page Giant 6
    256 - Superman Annual 3

    That means only the 3 stories from Action 245, 246, and 248 have never been reprinted to my knowledge.

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    Osgood Peabody
    Member posted April 12, 2002 09:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Osgood Peabody   Click Here to Email Osgood Peabody
    Time to jump-start this thread again, I've missed it.

    How about TPB ideas, as a precursor or alternative to an actual Silver Age Archive line?

    The recent Superman in the Sixties collection just scratched the surface as far as I'm concerned.

    The Kandor Chronicles.
    The Greatest Luthor stories ever told.
    The Greatest Brainiac stories ever told.
    The Greatest Imaginary stories ever told.

    Any nominations?

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    India Ink
    Member posted April 12, 2002 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for India Ink
    To keep me happy until that archive comes along, I'd like a "Lois Lane in the Sixties" book. And maybe a "Jimmy Olsen in the Sixties."

    Dream collection would be an all Lexor book (although, I think I actually have most of them now). And of course the Kandor book (there are actually too many to fit just one collection).

    Krypton, hmmm...While personally I'd like a sixties only book or a collection of the seventies back-up stories--methinks a Greatest Krypton Stories type book would do better in sales. Such a book would include the early Siegel/Shuster version, the later forties and the fifties versions, certain key Weisinger era stories, a few of the seventies back-ups, one or two early eighties stories, and yes I'm afraid it would also have to include some post-reboot tales.

    And howabout a "Super-Pets in the Sixties" collection? Krypto, Beppo, Comet, Streaky, Proty--and Koko, too!

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    Aldous
    Member posted April 13, 2002 01:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aldous
    quote:
    Posted by India Ink:
    And howabout a "Super-Pets in the Sixties" collection?

    Nnnoooooooooooooo!!

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    Aldous
    Member posted April 15, 2002 05:16 AM